missa solemnis and crumbly sound

[notnerb]

Just bought a sealed copy of the Klemperer / EMI GROC Beethoven Missa Solemnis off an auction site. Is it just me, or is the choral sound above mf crumbly / overnmodded in this recording? Great performance, but either lousy original recording or lousy transfer.

And, while I'm here, any other favourites for this work? I like Bernstein and admire Karajan (EMI) - any others?

Season's greetings (which this work chimes well with)

N

[BeethovensQuill]

ah The mighty Missa Solemnis, one of my favourite works of all time, and quite a difficult work to penetrate and get to the heart of.

There is a dearth of great recordings, i only have 2 myself because as of yet i dont feel we have a truely great recording that does justice to the score.

The recordings i own are the John Elliot Gardiner and Michael Gielen's on Capriccio, im more taken with the Gielen it has great power and maybe lets the music breathe a bit more in the sublime slower sections than Gardiner's.

Would like to hear other recommendations aswell and other views.

[Roehre]

My personal favourite is Herreweghe/ChampsElysée (Harmonia Mundi) for its balance and transparancy.

Anoher favourite is Bernstein with the Concertgebouw orchestra on DGG , but that may be as I was present at the recording sessions, including the one where Gundula Janowitz was sent packing as she hadn't prepared her part according to Bernstein.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Klemperer's EMI Missa Solemnis sounds a good deal better than his earlier Vox version with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra. It was sold as a single LP (Klemperer's playing was a little brisker in the 1950s) so the dynamic range is a little cramped. For many years, it continued to be the LP with the longest playing time, but this was exceeded whan Furtwangler's Ring was issued on 12 discs, with some sides as long as 43 minutes.

[Bryn]

Hmm, did anyone here happen to buy the CD with the whole of Fidelio on it? This was back in the fairly early days of the CD. It came witha special 'dongle', by the way.

[Stanley Stewart]

I'm inclined to return to the 2 CD set on the Testament label. Philharmonia Orchestra/Herbert von Karajan in 1959: Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Christa Ludwig, Nicolai Gedda and Nicola Zaccaria. Recording includes an interview with Schwarzkopf and CD2 includes a performance of Mozart's Sym No 38, K504, 'Prague'. Good value.

[Petrushka]

Another favourite is Bernstein with the Concertgebouw orchestra on DGG , but that may be as I was present at the recording sessions, including the one where Gundula Janowitz was sent packing as she hadn't prepared her part according to Bernstein.

That must have been an interesting sight to behold! Do tell us more.

How I wish Haitink would record this work. The two performances I've heard (Philharmonia 1984 and 1997 Proms) were outstanding. Surely someone can persuade him!!

Have to agree with the OP concerning the sound on the GROC Klemperer. I'm afraid I find it an unbearable listen. Transferred at much too high a level. One for the over-rated recordings thread when it pops up again.

[Colonel Danby]

I think that I'll stick with Jiggers, the Monteverdi Choir and the English Baroque Soloists if you don't mind: the best sound and refreshingly with period instruments.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Hmm, did anyone here happen to buy the CD with the whole of Fidelio on it? This was back in the fairly early days of the CD. It came with a special 'dongle', by the way.

But wasn't that something of a "cheat" CD in that the stereo CD was divided into two mono channels, so that you played disc twice to hear it once, if you see what I mean?

[Bryn]

That's the one. I saw it in Orchesography, had a bit o a chuckle to myself decided that it was unlikely to become that much of a collectors' item. Not really a "cheat" though. After all, having the right channel duplicating the set of data carried by the left is a bit wasteful.

[MickyD]

I dimly recall a very early attempt from period forces in this work by the Collegium Aureum in the late 70s. I think it got rubbished by a Gramophone critic at the time, but I'd be fascinated to hear it now. I'm sure it never got transferred to CD. Anyone else remember it?

[Bryn]

Likewise, MickyD. I'm not sure whether or not it was one of the recordings which survived the house fiire which destroyed the majority of my favourite LPs and tapes back in the late '80s. No time to check the LPs stored in the loft at the moment, but I will have a lok in a day or so. In th4e meantime, here are a few more details:

Sylvia Geszty, Doris Soffel, David Rendall, Kurt Widmer, Suddeutscher Madrigalchor, Collegium Aureum, Wolfgang Gonnenwein.



I got my copy from the old Gramophone Exchange in Soho Square(?).

[Bryn]

Likewise, MickyD. I'm not sure whether or not it was one of the recordings which survived the house fiire which destroyed the majority of my favourite LPs and tapes back in the late '80s. No time to check the LPs stored in the loft at the moment, but I will have a lok in a day or so. In th4e meantime, here are a few more details:

Sylvia Geszty, Doris Soffel, David Rendall, Kurt Widmer, Suddeutscher Madrigalchor, Collegium Aureum, Wolfgang Gonnenwein.



.

TH's Gramophone review is quite a laugh. Not his finest hour's work

I got my set in a sale at the old Gramophone Exchange, then in Soho Square.

[Gordon]

Just bought a sealed copy of the Klemperer / EMI GROC Beethoven Missa Solemnis off an auction site. Is it just me, or is the choral sound above mf crumbly / overnmodded in this recording? Great performance, but either lousy original recording or lousy transfer.

The Klemperer recording of MS is a great performance but the sound is poor by EMI standards of the time; even on the original release LPs, which I had, the sound was not good. It was made in early September 1965 at Kingsway Hall a venue one would have thought EMI were well used to by then and so no excuse for poor, unfocussed sound. The producer was not Legge of course and could well have been Suvi Raj Grubb his successor. It is interesting that either side of these sessions Klemperer made some recordings of Haydn and Mozart symphonies but at Abbey Road. Meanwhile around the same time Decca were using KH as well so there seems to have been no problem with the venue itself. Also in the middle of the previous August [ie only a couple of weeks before] EMI made the famous recording of the Elgar Cello Concerto with DuPre and that is fine.

For the decade after about 1960 the mixer desk at KH was the same [a 4 channel RED 37, all valves] and so all recordings there used familiar, known technology but by 1965 it is likely that the tape machines were no longer EMI types and maybe that has something to do with it. Does the GROC insert name the Engineer by any chance? I suspect it was Robert Gooch who made many fine recordings at KH. Abbey Road sound did change noticeably after about 1964 especially in Studio 2 and this was probably due to equipment changes. Anyway this MS sound certainly is not EMI's best.

Similarly in September 1958 in the Great Hall of the Musikverein there were technical problems with Karajan's Philharmonia MS stereo recording. The stereo version was not released with the first mono release and it was a few years later that World Records issued it in stereo. Yet there seems to have been no time pressure on the sessions which took 5 consecutive days leaving 2 days for the Mozart 38 immediately aftrewards. However the Mozart sound is not EMI's best either with a stereo image that is narrow and diffuse. I seem to remember reading somewhere about these sessions and the problems but can't recall where. My Gramophone for the release review is inaccessible at present otherwise I'd have looked it up to see if anything was said there about the stereo.

[formbyman]

According to the booklet in the original cd release of the Missa Solemnis,the Producer was Peter Andry, and the Engineer was Robert Gooch.