LSO Live?

[LSO Live]

I'll try to answer several questions on one post ...

Most orchestras (especially in the UK) don't own archives of their concerts. The majority of recordings that are exploited as archive releases were originally made exclusively for radio broadcast. This means that a broadcaster owns the recordings but not the right to release them – that right is still controlled by the musicians.

Although a particular orchestra may have appeared on a recording, the orchestra's present membership and their adminstration cannot give permission for an archive recording to be released. Any label can release the recording, provided they obtain the right to use the master from the broadcaster and a licence from the musicians who actually appeared on the recording or their representatives. The current LSO would need to go through exactly the same licensing procedure as an archive label if we wanted to release a recording.

The LSO is proud of its legacy, but our focus is very much on producing new recordings on LSO Live. We appreciate that there is demand for archive recordings, but there are many labels that already specialise in this market.

There is a further issue that we need to consider. Many musicians would never have agreed to a radio broadcast taking place if they had known that the recording would eventually be released. With LSO Live recordings, we edit together multiple live performances and the musicians have the right to veto any edit. That right is not always available to musicians in respect of for archive recordings.

Chaz Jenkins
Head of LSO Live

[Petrushka]

I'll try to answer several questions on one post ...

Most orchestras (especially in the UK) don't own archives of their concerts. The majority of recordings that are exploited as archive releases were originally made exclusively for radio broadcast. This means that a broadcaster owns the recordings but not the right to release them – that right is still controlled by the musicians.

Although a particular orchestra may have appeared on a recording, the orchestra's present membership and their adminstration cannot give permission for an archive recording to be released. Any label can release the recording, provided they obtain the right to use the master from the broadcaster and a licence from the musicians who actually appeared on the recording or their representatives. The current LSO would need to go through exactly the same licensing procedure as an archive label if we wanted to release a recording.

The LSO is proud of its legacy, but our focus is very much on producing new recordings on LSO Live. We appreciate that there is demand for archive recordings, but there are many labels that already specialise in this market.

There is a further issue that we need to consider. Many musicians would never have agreed to a radio broadcast taking place if they had known that the recording would eventually be released. With LSO Live recordings, we edit together multiple live performances and the musicians have the right to veto any edit. That right is not always available to musicians in respect of for archive recordings.

Chaz Jenkins
Head of LSO Live

Chaz,

Thank you very much for joining us here and for your detailed and informative reply here and to my original e-mail.

I am not a musician myself but can appreciate what you say about their view regarding radio broadcasts. However, virtually every great orchestra in the world has issued a great deal of archive material and has managed successfully to overcome the problems you mention without in any way harming their reputation or that of the individual players. I think here especially of those huge Concertgebouw boxes and the Dresden Staatskapelle Edition among notable issues. Your colleagues in the LPO have also shown tremendous flair in the issue of fine archive recordings alongside new releases.

Collectors know full well that accidents and fluffs happen in live performance; in the broad picture of the whole this doesn't greatly matter if the performance is a good one. One of the greatest performances of Strauss's Tod und Verklarung I have ever heard did not come from Karajan and the BPO but from Karl Bohm and the LSO at Salzburg as issued on the Andante label. This is a performance that deserves wider currency and there are many others, some of which I remember personally. The natural home for these is surely the orchestras own label.

I saw the LSO many times in the 1970's and 1980's. I went with them on tour to Russia in 1979 and later to Austria and Italy. It was a great orchestra then and remains so still. Older members here will recall concerts from before I was born and I still live in hope that some of those great performances I attended as well as those from further back in time will eventually see the light of day.

Is there any chance of the LSO reconsidering?

[mathias broucek]

Thank you for the response, Chaz

I completely understand that archive material does not fit with the brand of LSO Live which is aimed at a wide audience of purchasers including those who are not specialist collecters and who therefore expect modern sounds and slip-free execution.

Are you in discussions with any of the specialist reissue labels who DO market to the sorts of individuals who lurk on this forum?

[amateur51]

Many thanks for these explanations, Chaz.

I do think that Petrushka raises an important point about how other world-leading orchestras have managed to sort things out.




What a nice man!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Many thanks for these explanations, Chaz.

What a nice man!

I do think that Petrushka raises an important point about how other world-leading orchestras have managed to sort things out.

It does make it appear either that the LSO isn't as "savvy" as some of its rivals, or (surely not!) that it doesn't think its archive is as good as that of the LPO?

[cloughie]

It does make it appear either that the LSO isn't as "savvy" as some of its rivals, or (surely not!) that it doesn't think its archive is as good as that of the LPO?

...or none of these things - it doesn't feel it needs to dwell on the past, but cash in on current offerings!

[Curalach]

I'm sure that the LSO and its management are as "savvy" as they come in the orchestral world. One thing that none of us here know about, other than Chaz, is the commercial reality in which the organisation operates. It's possible that the costs in management time and money involved in launching an archive label would not be justified by the projected revenue.

On the other hand, if the suggestions made here look like creating useful additional net income for the orchestra I think they may be seriously considered.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm sure that the LSO and its management are as "savvy" as they come in the orchestral world. One thing that none of us here know about, other than Chaz, is the commercial reality in which the organisation operates. It's possible that the costs in management time and money involved in launching an archive label would not be justified by the projected revenue.

But the fact that other "organisations" have "justified" similar "projected revenue" rather suggests that your first sentence can't be entirely accurate - unless those oganisations are losing huge sums of money on their Archive releases (in which case, the LSO is indeed very savvy).

[Curalach]

I think if there was real money in it they would already have done it.

[Petrushka]

I think if there was real money in it they would already have done it.

Or could it really be that the current LSO have scant regard for the efforts 0f their predecessors and no interest in preserving their legacy for future generations? I always felt on reading Richard Morrison's 'biography' of the LSO that they were much more interested in the future and had precious little concern for the past and this is the impression I gain from Chaz's response. They certainly had their patchy periods and difficult times over the years, as most organisations do, but it is all part and parcel of what they are and the illustrious history they have needs documenting in sound with truly live recordings.

The issues that have appeared, on the Andante and BBC Legends labels, are the tip of the iceberg and I do sincerely hope that the LSO take another look at it.

[mathias broucek]

I think LSO Live is a red herring. LSO Live issues edited recordings and is aiming to sell to people buying core repertoire in good sound with world-class conductors. It therefore competes with the co-called majors who have a similar brand promise whilst also looking to pinch some sales from Naxos on the basis that people will pay £1 or £2 more for a higher-profile orchestra and conductor.

LSO Live is NOT looking to compete with Profil, BBc Legends, ICA Classics, Orfeo, Testament etc who are aiming more at a niche market of serious collecters who will have multiple recordings of the same piece and/or will aim to buy nearly everything by a particular artist.

Those orchestra labels that aim to do both (LPO, BR-Klassik) risk having an unclear market identity: people like us can differentiate between historic issues and recent material but the casual browser cannot.

The more interesting question is why fewer archive LSO off-air recordings have appeared on any label than is the case for other major orchestras. In general other orchestras have gone for the mouthwater but expensive big editions (e.g. NYPO) or single disc issues (Dresden/Profil) or both (RCO).

[LSO Live]

Mathias has touched on a number of the issues. There are separate markets for modern recordings and archive recordings. LSO Live has considerable experience in the market for modern recordings, however that experience would not necessarily translate well to the market for archive releases, where there are already a number of labels who have cherry-picked from the BBC and other broadcasters' archives.

I should also add that there are probably not as many radio recordings of LSO performances as you may imagine. In the USA many orchestras have always had the resources to make simple recordings of their own performances, which were often relayed through their local radio station. In Europe, many of the orchestras are owned by radio stations. However in the UK we blessed with a great number of orchestras, including BBC orchestras, but only one national broadcaster that has recorded concerts. Therefore there are relatively few LSO concerts that have been recorded for radio. Also, many would have been of the same repertoire that the orchestra and conductor recorded the next day in Abbey Road for EMI, Decca etc ...

Chaz Jenkins
Head of LSO Live

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Okay, Chas, I get the message: it ain't gonna happen. Guess we'll just have to keep giving our money to the LPO.

But your last paragraph begs question why are there fewer radio recordings of the LSO? Did somebody insult the DG's wife?

And what a missed opportunity to compare the Live Performances with the Studio recordings made "the next day".

Best Wishes, and in hope for a change of policy soon.

[Petrushka]

Okay, Chas, I get the message: it ain't gonna happen. Guess we'll just have to keep giving our money to the LPO.

But your last paragraph begs question why are there fewer radio recordings of the LSO? Did somebody insult the DG's wife?

And what a missed opportunity to compare the Live Performances with the Studio recordings made "the next day".

Best Wishes, and in hope for a change of policy soon.

Yes, well at least we tried very hard and asked the question. Re the 'live performance' vs 'studio recordings' debate once again we look at the LPO where they have done both (Haitink DSCH 10, Elgar Enigma, Tennstedt many issues) to striking effect.

Concerning the LSO, a look at the Proms Archive alone throughout the Previn and Abbado years will suffice to scupper the argument that there is insufficient broadcast material as well as much that the orchestra did not record 'the next day'. Throw in RFH broadcasts as well and there should be enough in the BBC vaults. In the 1980's it was rather infuriating that Abbado recorded most of his repertoire with the Chicago SO while giving stunning performances with the LSO. The record needs to be put straight.

As I said upthread the current LSO are clearly not interested in their heritage and in the absence of a change of policy, I hope some enterprising label manages to
do the task.