Pierre de la Roche

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  • mathias broucek
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 1303

    Pierre de la Roche

    Have we ever tackled the identity of the mystery conductor of Vanguard's Songs of the Auvergne recordings?

    Other web searches seem to have ruled-out Pierre Monteux and I can't imagine him in his late 80s learning all the songs.

    Any other knowledge (ideally) or theories. The (Viennese?) orchestral musicians must have known....
  • Alf-Prufrock

    #2
    I had no idea that Pierre de la Roche was a pseudonym, though the unnamed orchestra had puzzled me. What I remember about the original Vanguard LPs is that they were labelled 'Songs of the Auvergine' on the spine. More than thirty years later I still imagine aubergines sizzling in the oven.

    Comment

    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 30243

      #3
      Originally posted by mathias broucek View Post
      Other web searches seem to have ruled-out Pierre Monteux
      But 'De la Roche' presumably suggesting Peter/Pierre/Pietro/Pyotr Someone?
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

      Comment

      • cloughie
        Full Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 22115

        #4
        Originally posted by french frank View Post
        But 'De la Roche' presumably suggesting Peter/Pierre/Pietro/Pyotr Someone?
        But not Peter Mountain!


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        • ferneyhoughgeliebte
          Gone fishin'
          • Sep 2011
          • 30163

          #5
          Crossword enthusiasts and followers of the Alphabetical Associations Thread will have no problem with this: de la Roche ("of the rock") is a reference to "Rock and Roll", so it must be "Peter Roll" or Pierre Boulez. Simples!


          (Strictly speaking, of course, "Pierre Boulez" translates into "Rolling Stone", but they were far too young at the time to merit serious consideration. )
          [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

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          • Barbirollians
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 11669

            #6
            I love the idea it was Monteux - certainly it is sympathetic , scrupulously observed conducting especially of Bailero itself.

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            • gradus
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 5603

              #7
              I hadn't realised that M./Herr Havergesse had recorded so often, my money's on Monteux.

              Comment

              • richardfinegold
                Full Member
                • Sep 2012
                • 7652

                #8
                Monteux could have learned the songs at a younger age and and just never have ‘officially’ recorded them

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                • Pulcinella
                  Host
                  • Feb 2014
                  • 10887

                  #9
                  The CDs give recording dates (US style) as 3/27/63 and 3/16/66, with the venue being Baumgartner Hall, Vienna.

                  Are there no biographies of Monteux that would say whereabouts he was at those tines, or indeed nothing in the Hall's archives to say who was there for the recordings?

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30243

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                    The CDs give recording dates (US style) as 3/27/63 and 3/16/66, with the venue being Baumgartner Hall, Vienna.

                    Are there no biographies of Monteux that would say whereabouts he was at those tines, or indeed nothing in the Hall's archives to say who was there for the recordings?
                    He died in July 1964.
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • Pulcinella
                      Host
                      • Feb 2014
                      • 10887

                      #11
                      Originally posted by french frank View Post

                      He died in July 1964.

                      Should have checked; all are attributed to Pierre de la Roche, so not Monteux then.
                      I'm actually surprised that each set apparently only took a day to record. If true that's certainly to the great credit of the (scratch?) Viennese orchestra.

                      Comment

                      • HighlandDougie
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 3081

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                        The CDs give recording dates (US style) as 3/27/63 and 3/16/66, with the venue being Baumgartner Hall, Vienna.

                        Are there no biographies of Monteux that would say whereabouts he was at those tines, or indeed nothing in the Hall's archives to say who was there for the recordings?
                        The first LP was issued in 1961 by Vanguard (USA) and Philips (UK etc) according to Discogs. The label of the original Philips LP says copyright 1961 - see https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256457083305

                        As Monteux recorded Beethoven's 1st on 20-24 Apr 1960 with the VPO at the Sofiensaal, it is quite possible that he was, "Pierre de la Roche". Presumably, "de la Roche", is a pointer to, "Monteux"? I suspect that we'll never know.

                        Comment

                        • Pulcinella
                          Host
                          • Feb 2014
                          • 10887

                          #13
                          The Producer of the CDs is credited as the splendidly named Seymour Solomon.
                          Unless secrecy/anonymity needed to be preserved, it's a shame that when the transfers were made more didn't come to light about these recordings.

                          Although I have a different incarnation than this (with a photo of Davrath as the front), the back is the same, and it's there that it gives those dates I mentioned.
                          Altogether very odd.

                          Last edited by Pulcinella; 24-08-24, 12:25.

                          Comment

                          • french frank
                            Administrator/Moderator
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 30243

                            #14
                            Originally posted by HighlandDougie View Post
                            As Monteux recorded Beethoven's 1st on 20-24 Apr 1960 with the VPO at the Sofiensaal, it is quite possible that he was, "Pierre de la Roche". Presumably, "de la Roche", is a pointer to, "Monteux"?
                            Or just a repetition of Pierre = roche? Other famous Peters, Pierres, Pedros, Pietros, Pyotrs &c? I couldn't immediately find one (what one knows of Boulez would surely tend to rule him out anyway). Obviously someone very well known or there would have been no need for the pseudonym except to match the anonymity as the 'pick-up' orchestra. Monteux is said to have been 'renowned' for his French repertoire.

                            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                            Comment

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