Boult's Legendary Proms Elgar 1 on ICA Classics

[PJPJ]

....
As for the EMI Brahms series, I totally agree it should be brought back, but it needs some very careful attention: the CD transfers I've heard have been really not well done: I have them on Disky (as a licensed reissue from EMI) and on Japanese Toshiba/EMI reissues. In both cases the sound has some horrible moments which the LPs did not. But the performances are superb - I remember first getting the LSO Third when I was at school and being overwhelmed by it (and by the amazing filler of Dame Janet's Alto Rhapsody).

I do remember that (I think) - it and the Haitink were both first issues of their respective cycles in the same month, and there was a lot of discussion about which one should be bought!

BBC Legends released two versions of the same work with the same conductor, so perhaps a plethora of Jobs would be in order, especially as one is on DVD and the other would be on CD.

[cloughie]

...in which case the transferrer is a law breaker, having not retained the original disc.

There are some real bounders out there!

[Norfolk Born]

- is this, perhaps, 'the most humble day of your life', Norfs?

Thus far - very possibly!

[Barbirollians]

This is great news. Though I wish that they had chosen his 1970 Proms Elgar 1 which I thought was even more wonderful, and hasn't been out before (whereas the 1976 performance has been, at least twice, as noted by other posters). The Brahms 3 from 1977 I'm really intrigued to hear again - I've very vivid memories of it (and of the rehearsal I went to), found the whole thing extremely absorbing, but also recall a slightly shaky Coda to the last movement. I hope I'm mis-remembering that though.

ICA has already done a wonderful job with the 1972 film of Boult's Job at the Festival Hall. Five years later (17 August 1977) he gave an absolutely glorious Prom performance with the BBC Northern SO (noting it in his diary as "A+"). I'd love to see that issued, but it would be unreasonable to expect ICA to put out two recordings of Job! It is great that ICA is mining Boult's late Proms for its series - there is a lot more, at least potentially. I would love to see and hear the filmed Gerontius from Canterbury (I think?) Cathedral - I've only ever heard a very imperfect copy of the audio from that, and it's a beautiful performance.

As for the EMI Brahms series, I totally agree it should be brought back, but it needs some very careful attention: the CD transfers I've heard have been really not well done: I have them on Disky (as a licensed reissue from EMI) and on Japanese Toshiba/EMI reissues. In both cases the sound has some horrible moments which the LPs did not. But the performances are superb - I remember first getting the LSO Third when I was at school and being overwhelmed by it (and by the amazing filler of Dame Janet's Alto Rhapsody).

I have three of the Brahms on the old HMV Classics label ( all but No 1 ) . They sound OK.

[Barbirollians]

Well hopefully this could be a better experience for me than Boult's 1976 studio recording of Elgar 2. At rehearsal 64 in the first movement, Boult just sounds sickeningly glib and complacent, as if he could not have cared less about anything Elgar told us earlier in that movement.

I realize this may not be a consensus opinion, and after all, it really isn't the issue here beyond a personal -and deeply felt- conviction.

It may not be Boult's best recording of the piece - I for one regard his 1944 performance with the BBC SO as probably the finest of all - but I think sickeningly glib and complacent is way over the top as a criticism.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I for one regard his 1944 performance with the BBC SO as probably the finest of all

- with Elgar's own and Solti, for me.

but I think sickeningly glib and complacent is way over the top as a criticism.

So do I. I don't like the later Boult recordings on EMI: the last time I heard them (many years ago - due for a re-listen) I found them boring and turgid. But Boult never did anything that could be described in the terms Oppy chose, IMO.

[Pabmusic]

... But Boult never did anything that could be described in the terms Oppy chose, IMO.

Agreed. The 1976 performance is broader, less urgent, than any of Boult's four previous recordings, but he was 87 at the time, and suffering increasing back pain. Nonetheless, his last few years did bring us a number of real gems.

As to the passage that was highlighted, I really don't see the point. Figure 63 calls for a slackening of pace, except that bars 5 and 6 ought to be in tempo (an anticipation of 64) followed by another slackening. None of this is marked, of course, but it makes sense. That leaves 64 to be in tempo, as predicted a few bars earlier, with five bars until the (again unmarked) beginning of the build-up to the climax, which is at the allargando bar before 66. To make too much of the passage at 64 would - in my view, anyway - be at least five bars too early, and mean that too much is made of an unmarked passage to the detriment of the marked one. I think Boult does this well; whether it's better than he did it in earlier recordings may come down to nothing more than age.

[Roehre]

As to the passage that was highlighted, I really don't see the point. Figure 63 calls for a slackening of pace, except that bars 5 and 6 ought to be in tempo (an anticipation of 64) followed by another slackening. None of this is marked, of course, but it makes sense. That leaves 64 to be in tempo, as predicted a few bars earlier, with five bars until the (again unmarked) beginning of the build-up to the climax, which is at the allargando bar before 66. To make too much of the passage at 64 would - in my view, anyway - be at least five bars too early, and mean that too much is made of an unmarked passage to the detriment of the marked one.

So, we are talking about Boult's Elgar then, not Elgar's

[cloughie]

- with Elgar's own and Solti, for me.


So do I. I don't like the later Boult recordings on EMI: the last time I heard them (many years ago - due for a re-listen) I found them boring and turgid. But Boult never did anything that could be described in the terms Oppy chose, IMO.

I quite like the Lyrita Boult recording, but i really prefer the more measured approach of Barbirolli and Thomson.

[Pabmusic]

So, we are talking about Boult's Elgar then, not Elgar's

Yes, of course we are. Elgar is one of the most helpful composers of all for marking his intentions, but no-one can mark everything and even he gives a few puzzles. You could play it exactly as written, of course, though I suspect that few would find it rewarding. In any case, with Elgar (and with Boult) we're talking about the most subtle of holdings-back, not great rallentandos.

[Roehre]

Yes, of course we are. Elgar is one of the most helpful composers of all for marking his intentions, but no-one can mark everything and even he gives a few puzzles. You could play it exactly as written, of course, though I suspect that few would find it rewarding. In any case, with Elgar (and with Boult) we're talking about the most subtle of holdings-back, not great rallentandos.

I was only teasing
This Elgar 1/Boult is IMO too one of the great performances of this work, a much cherished BBC MM CD it is for me, though it wouldn't be the first CD to turn to. That would for me Barbirolli or (for an alternative approach) Haitink (both EMI).

[Pabmusic]

I was only teasing

Oh dear! Not again!

[Dave2002]

Wonderful news indeed, Barbirollians! I too have had that Proms set for ages and like you I cherish it.

I'll investigate the other ICA releases that you mention. Would it be nice if EMI would re-release Boult's 'Indian summer' set of Brahms' symphonies with the LPO?

Are those Boult Brahms recordings out of the catalogue again, then? I have a set already. I think they come and go periodically. I have vague recollections of hearing him do the Schubert 9 at the RAH.

[Barbirollians]

Yes the Boult EMI Brahms symphonies are deleted since the old HMV Classics label was replaced with the Classic FM cds

[Pabmusic]

...I have vague recollections of hearing him do the Schubert 9 at the RAH.

This is an RAH performance from 1969: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Schubert-Sym...0473829&sr=8-1