Josef Krips Brahms

[Guest]

I've been trying to find a CD of an old Josef Krips recording of Brahms 1st symphony with the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra. I have a very worn LP on Decca 'Ace of Clubs' so I know he did record it!

Does anyone know if it made it to CD.

Thanks

[PatrickOD]

Welcome, Basil. Is this any good to you?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/2268-Brahms-Symphony-Josef-Krips/dp/B0048LKFZW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1292507894&sr=8-2

[Thomas Roth]

That is a LP. It was released on CD coupled with Schumann´s first with LSO, on Decca in Japan.

[Thomas Roth]

Here it is, but it is very expensive:

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%96%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E3%83%A0%E3%82%B9-%E4%BA%A4%E9%9F%BF%E6%9B%B2%E7%AC%AC1%E7%95%AA-%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E3%82%B9-%E3%83%A8%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BC%E3%83%95/dp/B000O78WXQ/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=classical&qid=1292524274&sr=8-11

[Gordon]

Here's the Philip Stuart Decca discography [see CHARM web site] entry for this item:

Pr: John Culshaw Eng: Gordon Parry (m), James Brown (s)
[a] 7,8 & [b-e] 12 Oct 1956 Sofiensaal, Vienna
[b-e] Hilde Gueden (soprano);
Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra, Josef Krips
[a] BRAHMS Symphony No.1 in C minor Op.68
[b] J. STRAUSS II An der schönen blauen Donau - Waltz Op.314
[c] J. STRAUSS II Rosen aus dem Süden - Waltz Op.388
[d] J. STRAUSS II Frühlingsstimmen - Waltz Op.410
[e] Josef STRAUSS Dorfschwalben aus Österreich - Waltz Op.164
[bc] Unpublished: re-recorded without the vocal part in Sep 57,
[a] (Jun57) LXT5292 = (nr ’59) SXL2137, (May72) ECS643;
(Sep57) LL1608 = (Nov59) CS6110,
[de] (Oct61) CEP708, (Oct73) ECS2122; not released in US,
[a] (Jap ’98) POCL4318 = 458 048.2,
[de] (Jap ’98) POCL4319 = 458 049.2, (Jly98) Preiser 90314..


as you can see, as of a few months ago the Japanese issue which has been referred to already on the thread and expensive [so whats new about Japanese imports?], is the only CD issue at present.

[Basil]

At least I now know it does exist on CD.

Thank you all.

[Gordon]

Looking again at these Amazon offers the LP is billed as Vienna Festival Orchestra rather than VPO which was the Decca studio band. Now it could be that some contractual issue changed the name but it could also mean that these LPs are not the Decca recordings but perhaps radio recordings from a concert say. So be wary of the LPs. It is possible that they are the Decca recordings licensed to a local company because a companion LP is also offered witha catalogue number close to the Brahms with some Strauss pieces on. We know that some were recorded at the same time as the Brahms. I don't recognise the label logo or cat nos and the photos on the site are too blurred to tell.

Anyway the Japanese CD is the right recording.

By the way here's the Philip Stuart LSO discography entry for the Schumann:

Pr: James Walker Eng: Kenneth Wilkinson (m), Ken Cress (s)
23-24 May 1957 Kingsway Hall
Josef Krips
SCHUMANN Symphony No.1 in B flat Op.38 “Spring”
Coupled with Symphony No.4, recorded on 15&19 Oct 56.
LP: (Dec57) LXT5347 = (Jly60) SXL2223; (Dec57) LL1736,
(Apr67) ADD157 = SDD157; (Jly67) STS15019,
(Feb75) ECS758,
(Feb76) DPA527-28,
(Oct77) SPA493,
(Dec78) DPA623-24.
Download: Pristine Classical PASC144.

- I have the Pristine download and it's very good coupled with his Schumann 4 which was recorded in stereo [there was a 1952 mono] at KH. He didn't record the other 2 with either the LSO or LPO.

Interesting aside on these Kingsway recordings is that the great Kenneth Wilkinson did the mono recordings and the stereo was left to others like Gordon Parry [who recorded the VPO Brahms 1 mono and later was on Solti's Ring] and Ken Cress.

[Gordon]

A bit more digging revealed the following site:

http://www.musicstack.com/album/josef_k/brahms_spmphony_no4_in_e_minor

Where you will find, in addition to the UK one [at about £15 incl postage] for an LP already noted in previous posts here, 2 sources for a custom CD of your Brahms 1. Both will find an LP and convert it for you - for a fee of about USD70 and a delay of about a month while they find the LP. They have to sell you the LP AND the CD for copyright reasons [the fair use clause - see the site notes].

The label of the Brahms LP AM2268 is Concert Hall which I should have guessed! Even so beware.

[Basil]

Thanks for your efforts, Gordon.

I can transfer the LP I have to a digital file, the problem is it's not in the best of conditions, confirmed by the Amazon Japan site which has clips from the recording.

I'll just keep searching, it's all part of the fun, right?

[Gordon]

Thanks for your efforts, Gordon.

No problem, it's interesting to do this kind of research.

I'll just keep searching, it's all part of the fun, right?

Yes, that's what it's all about. I am a collector of old recordings that were made in Kingsway Hall and have a quite a large number of them and more come my way each week or so. I've converted many LPs myself from LP originals [no 78] but one can clean up some of these with readily available software. My current problem is finding ANY available surviving LPs but we keep looking!

In the research I have had the help of Philip Stuart who is an inveterate and fastidious discographer who has just done an ECO one for them on their 50th anniversary. His other ones for Decca, LSO and ASMF are on the CHARM web site:

http://www.charm.rhul.ac.uk/download/download.html

His LPO one is not there I think because of copyright issues.

[umslopogaas]

M10 gordon

I used to collect classical LPs until I retired three years ago (well, in fact, I do still collect them, but havent the money I used to have when I was working, so have had to throttle right back). I have also moved and now live a long way from my two favourite shops, which is probably just as well or I'd be back in there spending money I no longer have.

You are right, getting hold of the good stuff is difficult, but it is a rewarding hobby. If you live anywhere near Guildford or Hove, and by any chance dont know of these two, they can both be excellent sources:

Ben's Collectors Records (prop. Ben Darnton)
5 Tunsgate
Guildford GU1 3QT
Tel. 01483 301165

Fine Records (prop. Julian Pelling, assisted by Ian Wallace)
32 George Street
Hove
Tel. 01273 723345

Ben's is open every day 10 - 6, but he isnt there Sundays and Mondays. Fine Records is open (I think) 10 - 5.30 Monday to Saturday.

Looking at the recordings by Krips in my own collection, I see he mostly recorded on Decca, but sometimes on RCA (Beethoven piano concertos with Rubinstein) and one recording on HMV (ASD 654, Stravinsky Firebird and Strauss Rosenkavalier Suite).

As I also expect you know, if you're after early Decca stereos on the original SXL labels, you need deep pockets, those early Deccas are collectible and some go for very high prices. If you've got the Krips 'Don Giovanni' (SXL 2117-20) you're a lucky person, my price guides suggest you'd have to pay five hundred quid for it - assuming you can find it, in twenty years of diligent searching I've never seen it, other than on ebay where several copies have gone in the last couple of years for between three hundred and over six hundred quid.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just after I bought the LP, I recall reading a review of this performance, which ended "A bit of a lemon - one of Decca's rare ones". However, I never found it so. Therefore, good luck with your endeavours.

[Ferretfancy]

umslopogaas,

I'm amazed! The first conductor I saw at the RFH in 1952 was Krips, directing the LSO in the Emperor with Friedrich Wuhrer as the soloist.
I have the Don Giovanni on LP, but in its incarnation on Ace of Clubs, I shouldn't think that it would command the same sort of price, but in any case I would not want to part with it!

[Ferretfancy]

Sorry! Ace ofDiamonds !

[Gordon]

Yes indeed, umslopogaas, if you have the inclination and the funds you can spend a fortune on "collectible" vinyl! That's why I keep my searches limited to Kingsway Hall recordings. I got rid of a lot of my run of the mill vinyl years ago but kept some favourites back - I rarely play them now but at least I can if the mood takes me. They are all 50s/60s EMI ASD/SAX and Decca LXT/SXL or similar and have been converted to CD for safety. I am not a vinyl fan in the sense that nothing else will do but there is a certain sound there that despite the swishing, wowing and clicks etc has its charm. The problem, as you have said, is getting LPs in good condition and that is getting rarer. This is not just a latter day collector's problem, I remember sending back to Decca 3 sets of Solti's Gottedammerung when it came out because some discs in the set had very bad wow due to the two sides being non-concentric. Can you imagine that final held E flat wowing away for ages! Very frustrating.

Sometimes one wonders why certain records have collector status - one well known collectible artist for some reason is Gioconda de Vito who made only a few recordings [perhaps it's the rarity not the quality!]. The Krips Giovanni has been a favourite collector's item since its stereo release in October 1955 [recorded June Vienna Redoutensaal June 1955 - they released much sooner after the sessions in those days of minimal post production] probably for the cast as much as anything. The Firebird you mention came from Abbey Road with the Philharmonia in 1963. He did very little with the Philharmonia spending most of his time in the UK recording with the LSO, LPO and the NewSO [a pick up band used a lot by Decca in the late forties/early fifties]. I haven't found his Beethoven concerti with Rubinstein - if it was made after 1968 then Decca would not have recorded it for RCA and so it's not in their discography. One real rarity for Krips was a recording of Searle's second symphony with the LPO for Lyrita funded by the British Council and made in Walthamstow in mid September 1973 [SRCD285 still available]. I bet that was fun for him - I wonder how he came to be chosen do it when perhaps Boult would have been a more obvious choice at that time being heavily involved with the LPO?

I do know of Ben's shop in Guildford - about 30 miles from me here - but since my daughter left the University there I don't go there often. Hove is a bit of a stretch just for a browse although the M3/M27/A27 is a good road for most of the distance!! Maybe when the weather gets better!