Radio 3 announcements

[Stanfordian]

I heard a Radio 3 announcer create another new composer on Radio 3 this morning. He said 'Fransex'. He meant 'Francaix'. Fransex sounds more like a pornsite. God 'elp us!

[Bryn]

Oh dear. You really should do a bit of background research on the composer's own preferred pronuciation of that name. "Fronsex" is a pretty close approximation, "Fronsay" is simply wrong.

[Stanfordian]

Ok Bryn, you carry on pronouncing the word Francaix as Fronsex. But I won't.

[Bryn]

Then you will continue to pronounce it wrongly. It is you, not the "Radio 3 announcer", who is seeking to "create a new composer".

[french frank]

I think the final(?) word on this should be with Chris de Souza. He was announcing a lunchtime concert in St George's, Brandon Hill (as it used to be called). Before it went live he did the usual little warm-up chat with the audience, including something about a piece by Françaix. It went something like: "I know some people prefer the Fronseks pronunciation, which is the one he - apparently idiosyncratically - preferred himself. But at the BBC, the pronunciation Fronsay is preferred and that's what I'm going to use ." My paraphrase.

It really is, 'you pay your money'. I can't find any independent support for a generally accepted view that the family name is pronounced Fronseks. My impression is that it's, on the contrary, pronounced Fronsay. There is evidence that Françaix himself cultivated the alternative pronunciation and preferred it. So which one do you use? [That is a rhetorical question.]

[Mr Pee]

Not sure what this discussion is doing on the CD Review board anyway....

which rhymes with Francaix.... or at least it does the way I pronounce his name.

[Uncle Monty]

Does anyone think they've heard "Pachelbel" pronounced properly?!

I was once subjected to an ear-bashing from a German colleague on this "important" point

[gurnemanz]

Does anyone think they've heard "Pachelbel" pronounced properly?!

I've heard the name of the famous German philosopher, Kant, pronounced authentically on the BBC. It was by James Naughtie on the Today Programme.

[Bryn]

" ... the Fronseks pronunciation, which is the one he - apparently idiosyncratically - preferred himself. But at the BBC, the pronunciation Fronsay is preferred and that's what I'm going to use ."

Sorry frenchie, but either Chris de Souza, or your recollection of what he said, is at variance with what a fairly detailed item broadcast by BBC Radio 3 on this very subject a few decades ago had to say. It was made clear that it was not some idiosyncratic pronuncisation adopted by Jean Françaix, but a family tradition which has since died out. His daughter, for instance, adopted the more common French style of 'Fronsay'. They even had a brief recording of Jean Françaix illustrating how he and his antecedants pronounced the family name. I have often heard it thus pronounced on Radio 3 since that broadcast, but have also heard it all too frequently mispronounced (as he would have it).

[french frank]

Sorry frenchie, but either Chris de Souza, or your recollection of what he said, is at variance with what a fairly detailed item broadcast by BBC Radio 3 on this very subject a few decades ago had to say. It was made clear that it was not some idiosyncratic pronuncisation adopted by Jean Françaix, but a family tradition which has since died out. His daughter, for instance, adopted the more common French style of 'Fronsay'. They even had a brief recording of Jean Françaix illustrating how he and his antecedants pronounced the family name. I have often heard it thus pronounced on Radio 3 since that broadcast, but have also heard it all too frequently mispronounced (as he would have it).

But Bryn, even what you're saying, presents some uncertainty, "a family tradition which has since died out" (pourquoi, may one ask?). Mais, parfaitement. So why should the BBC continue with it? When I said 'family name' I wasn't referring, specifically, to the immediate family of JF, merely people who shared this name.

But there are several points to consider (and I don't know the answers to the questions I'm posing):

How is his name pronounced in France?

Assuming that in France it is pronounced Fronseks, is there a generalised pronunciation in English? Gil Shaham (which the man has apparently 'westernised' to stress on the final), Antal Doráti (who judging from an excellent quote found by John Shea, was indifferent to the position of the stress and was happy with the non-Hungarian tonic) or Björn Borg who I saw on TV years ago shrugging his shoulders at the way we Brits pronounced his name.

Aren't we back to the Don Kee-ohoo-tayee v. Don Kwiksot debate?

[Norfolk Born]

I wonder how they pronounce it his name in Ay-en-Provence, or indeed on the floats in the Carnival d'Ay.

[Martin]

No Francaix, please, we're British.

[Roehre]

I am afraid the pronunciation of foreign names (be it persons, places or whatever) by by far the best part of BBC-presenters is as straightforwardly unrecognizable for the speakers of those languages as the French pronunciations are of English (and other foreign) names (etc.).

I was really stupified by the way German names were pronounced at any of the BBC 4 programmes during the German week last week. Really beyond a joke, I'm afraid.

[french frank]

I wonder how they pronounce it his name in Ay-en-Provence, or indeed on the floats in the Carnival d'Ay.

The etymology is different. Aix is supposed to derive from a Latin locative, Aquis ('at the waters'), referring to the natural spa waters. I am emailing the pronunciation unit, but, as with the French député, M. Michel Françaix, I may not get a reply as the service is not available to all and sundry, of whom I am one.

As far as I'm concerned, the BBC pronunciation unit will be well aware of the issues involved and will deliver a recommendation.

Cf Daventry

[Bryn]

Frenchie, before this gets even more bogged down, may I draw your attention to the initial message in this thread. It was a negative criticism of a announcer for what was perceived by Stanford's Legacy to be an incorrect pronunciation of Jean Françaix's name. I challenged that criticism on the basis that pronouncing it as the composer himself preferred was no mispronunciation.