Beethoven Symphony Cycles

[richardfinegold]

The Music for Pleasure LPs cited by Smittims were recorded by Steinberg with the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra for Capitol Records in the 1950s - but not the complete cycle (3, 5, 6, 7, 8 and, with one exception - the 7th - in glorious mono).

The remastered Konwitschny cycle (in a rather attractive Berlin Classics box) has its moments but I have to confess that I don't often find myself reaching for it. Indeed, "never" might be more truthful.

There was on article, or an extended review, by reviewer Huntley Dent in Fanfare, on the occasion of the release of the Steinberg/Pittsburgh Brahms set on CD that discussed the history of the Brahms and Beethoven sets. Command initially recorded these on 35 mm tape. In the States one can find the lps in shops on the Command label. Command then licensed these to Capitol.
Despite the audiophile pretensions, the end result for both sets are pretty blah sounding

[Barbirollians]

I have just checked my Konwitschny box and it says Edel Classics - is that different from the Berlin Classics box ?

[HighlandDougie]

I have just checked my Konwitschny box and it says Edel Classics - is that different from the Berlin Classics box ?

Same recordings. Edel Classics and Eterna (the East German label of VEB) have transformed themselves into 'Berlin Classics' for marketing purposes. The back of the Berlin Classics box says, "Produced by VEB Deutsche Schallplatten Berlin, 1959 - 1961. Copyright 2017 Edel Germany GmbH" - the latter referring to the remastered recordings.

[HighlandDougie]

There was on article, or an extended review, by reviewer Huntley Dent in Fanfare, on the occasion of the release of the Steinberg/Pittsburgh Brahms set on CD that discussed the history of the Brahms and Beethoven sets. Command initially recorded these on 35 mm tape. In the States one can find the lps in shops on the Command label. Command then licensed these to Capitol.
Despite the audiophile pretensions, the end result for both sets are pretty blah sounding

Pace Huntley Dent, Command Records was only founded in 1959 by one Enoch Light. He then launched 'Command Classics', using Bob Fine as engineer. Fine had pioneered the use of 35mm tape at Everest Records but, before the business demise of Everest, bought out its studio. So, Enoch Light had a renowned engineer, 35mm tape recording and was in the market for an orchestra/conductor combo. Having been very impressed by a Steinberg/Pittsburgh SO concert, he then signed them up. The result includes the cycles now in the DG boxes of the Beethoven and Brahms symphonies.

The Capitol LPs were recorded in the early/mid 1950s and in a supposedly inferior recording venue to that used by Command Classics (the "cavernous" Syria Mosque, a theatre as opposed to the Soldiers and Sailors Memorial Hall). They are the recordings in the EMI Icon William Steinberg box issued in 2011. Alas, I can find no evidence of Capitol licensing the 1960s 35mm Command Classics recordings (which, as an aside, were licensed to Pye in the UK, not EMI, Capitol's parent company). Anyway, two different sets of recordings. And apologies for the anoraky post.

[duncan]

They're not HIPP but Haitink did use a slimmed down LSO with the timpani (hard sticks) interestingly placed at the extreme front right of the stage behind the second violins. The double basses were at the extreme left. At least this was the case on the evening I attended (Symphonies 1 & 9). Agree with LHC that the sound on the CDs is a pretty faithful representation of what I heard in the hall.

I can’t remember the layout but the sound and tempos in the performances I went to (a particularly fine 7th as I recall) certainly suggested he’d been listening to HIPP. It wasn’t what I was expecting from him at this stage of his life and career.

[Petrushka]

I can’t remember the layout but the sound and tempos in the performances I went to (a particularly fine 7th as I recall) certainly suggested he’d been listening to HIPP. It wasn’t what I was expecting from him at this stage of his life and career.

Yes indeed, I meant that it wasn't, obviously, on 'authentic' instruments. Haitink did much the same in his work with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe including Brahms, Schumann and Schubert's 9th as heard at the Proms. He never stopped looking afresh at his scores and bemoaned the fact that he was judged on recordings made decades ago.

[Barbirollians]

I thought the First and Second were sound enough recordings by Konwitschny and the LGO this morning on listening and all those repeats are there.

[HighlandDougie]

"Sound" is a good description also for the 7th/8th to which I have just listened. "Worthy" also springs to mind. Were I being unkind, I might add its usual adjunct, " ... but dull". However, top marks for observation of repeats.

While the remastering would seem to have opened out the recording, it seems to me very much of its time, i.e. late 1950s. If I want to listen to big band Germanic LvB roughly of that era, HvK in 1962 or, better, Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt with the VPO seem to me to be rather preferable. Or am I missing something?

[smittims]

I've often wondered about this generally, how some poeple express extreme approval of interpretations which leave others cold. Have you heard Dave Hurwitz rave about the VPO/ Schmidt-Isserstedt set? I suppose there's something some people hear in a performance which eludes others.

Another factor may be a pre-existing liking for that interpreter. I'ev said elsewhere how I think I may have overrated Colin Davis in the 1970s. Certainly I used to hear each new recording of his expecting to find it utterly marvellous, adn usually did. Or had I just told myself in advance that I would?

[Bryn]

I've often wondered about this generally, how some poeple express extreme approval of interpretations which leave others cold. Have you heard Dave Hurwitz rave about the VPO/ Schmidt-Isserstedt set? I suppose there's something some people hear in a performance which eludes others.

Another factor may be a pre-existing liking for that interpreter. I'ev said elsewhere how I think I may have overrated Colin Davis in the 1970s. Certainly I used to hear each new recording of his expecting to find it utterly marvellous, adn usually did. Or had I just told myself in advance that I would?

I blame that early recording of Beethoven's 7th. It did cause something of a storm of approval at the time, as I recall. Also, he did so much to extend appreciation of Berlioz's oeuvre. I well recall cueing all night for his performance (in English) of The Trojans at the 1968 Proms, though that may be imprinted on my memory partly due to one of my fellow all-night queuers having a grand mal epileptic attack around sunrise and someone getting a security guard to phone for an ambulance.

[HighlandDougie]

Have you heard Dave Hurwitz rave about the VPO/ Schmidt-Isserstedt set? I suppose there's something some people hear in a performance which eludes others.

......I think I may have overrated Colin Davis in the 1970s. Certainly I used to hear each new recording of his expecting to find it utterly marvellous, adn usually did. Or had I just told myself in advance that I would?

OMG! No, I'm not familiar with the Sage of Tuscaloosa's thoughts on the Schmidt-Isserstedt cycle, Hurwitz not being someone to whom I pay any attention so, if he likes it, it's going in the recycling bin. Seriously, though, it was listening to a (Japanese) SACD remastering of it which convinced me of its merits. It was never going to set the heather on fire but it's very enjoyable - with some great VPO playing.

As to Sir Colin Davis, I'll forgive him any amount of turgid Beethoven from Dresden for his Tippett recordings.

[smittims]

Interesting to hear of your 'Trojans' memories, Bryn. Colin did some fine 'Trojans' in parts before the 1969 staging. I remember Evelyn Lear as a superb Dido, and Janet Baker was singing Cassandra then. There were also some Sadlers' Wells stalwarts, such as Raimund Herincx, who sang at least two parts in each performance.

[FFRR]

I've just bought the Schmidt-Isserstedt set as an MP3 download for less than 9 quid. I was familiar with it from the 70s when a friend had the (well-regarded) 7th. It was the enthusiasm of DH (whose views I take under advisement) that prompted me to 'spring' for it (plus Egmont, Consecration and Leonora 3 from the Decca 'Analogue Years' box).

[Barbirollians]

The Schmidt Isserstedt is very enjoyable and beautifully played but it is not incendiary.

[Barbirollians]

Returning to the Konwitschny cycle . I rather liked the trenchant Fourth . The Fifth is rather odd only catching fire at all in the finale . The Pastoral is a straightforward reading the highlight for me the Scene by the brook movement but a rather earthbound finale .

The Seventh ,however,lives up to all the encomiums . Terrific and what a finale in particular.