Beethoven Symphony Cycles

[Barbirollians]

Starting on the Savall cycle I have found the first two symphonies bright, light textured and very enjoyable though there are more exciting and witty versions of the Second.

[BBMmk2]

Starting on the Savall cycle I have found the first two symphonies bright, light textured and very enjoyable though there are more exciting and witty versions of the Second.

I think, with this st,as I have heard mixed reactions, I’ll just have to plummet for it.

[Barbirollians]

I am a bit further in to his cycle now . The Fourth very much a success as it so often seems to be with HIPP cycles. Much of the Eroica is very good but so far no HIPP Eroica I have heard tears at the soul like Furtwangler and the VPO/Erich Kleiber - Savall is very good in the finale where many taper off a bit . Only listened to the Fifth once will need to again .

I think the Pastoral is outstanding ! Much the best HIPP Pastoral I have ever heard - it’s a joy from first note to last , thrilling Storm and if not quite HVK /Philharmonia levels of spirituality in the finale still terrific.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, there were those who respected the composer's instructions regarding tempi, even when most decided they knew better than Beethoven when it came to such considerations.

“In times where personalities are thinly sown, we have first class, yes excellent, musical practitioners, who lack intuition, imagination, and a feeling for composers, who, even though they lived in the past, can speak to us about today. Courage is needed to reveal one's own feelings in interpretation and not tell the audience with raised forefinger: "The composer wanted it like this, and no other way." But at the same time we singers must never forget that we are only the servants of the great minds who created all the wonderful pieces of music we enjoy today.”
—Christa Ludwig, In My Own Voice: Memoirs (1999), p. 119. (translated by Regina Domeraski)

[Barbirollians]

The Savallset continues to give great pleasure . A sparkling Seventh from start to finish with a dark troubling Allegrettoand a definitely unbuttoned Eighth.

[pastoralguy]

The Savallset continues to give great pleasure . A sparkling Seventh from start to finish with a dark troubling Allegrettoand a definitely unbuttoned Eighth.

Yes, I love that set too.

[ChandlersFord]

A couple of years ago, I picked up (in a charity shop), Haitink’s final Beethoven cycle, with the LSO (LSO label).

I’d decided I had enough Beethoven integrales , but as this was so cheap (less than two quid), I thought it would be rude not to pick it up.

Well....I wish I’d left it there. The performances strike me as shockingly perfunctory and lackadaisical - as if both orchestra and conductor are thoroughly bored with the works. If you didn’t know it was the LSO, you’d probably think this was an above-average amateur band playing: and the conducting represents a sort of paradigm of anonymity.

Haitink was always talking about the ‘tyranny of the complete cycle’, while submitting himself to that very tyranny, time and time again. One wishes he’d refused the yoke on this occasion. This set really does him no favours at all.

[richardfinegold]

A couple of years ago, I picked up (in a charity shop), Haitink’s final Beethoven cycle, with the LSO (LSO label).

I’d decided I had enough Beethoven integrales , but as this was so cheap (less than two quid), I thought it would be rude not to pick it up.

Well....I wish I’d left it there. The performances strike me as shockingly perfunctory and lackadaisical - as if both orchestra and conductor are thoroughly bored with the works. If you didn’t know it was the LSO, you’d probably think this was an above-average amateur band playing: and the conducting represents a sort of paradigm of anonymity.

Haitink was always talking about the ‘tyranny of the complete cycle’, while submitting himself to that very tyranny, time and time again. One wishes he’d refused the yoke on this occasion. This set really does him no favours at all.

I love BH, saw him conduct many times, bought many of his recordings, and I completely agree with you

[Barbirollians]

I love BH, saw him conduct many times, bought many of his recordings, and I completely agree with you

Interesting, Rob Cowan as I recall gave many of these performances pretty rave reviews in Gramophone at the time they were released suggesting they were Haiyink's best.

I have some of them . I recall I quite liked them but true to say i don't think they have come down from the shelf since.

[Bryn]

Interesting, Rob Cowan as I recall gave many of these performances pretty rave reviews in Gramophone at the time they were released suggesting they were Haiyink's best.

I have some of them . I recall I quite liked them but true to say i don't think they have come down from the shelf since.

Mine (the boxed set) neither; however, with so many recordings of those works to hand, very few get more than one or two outings, with Krivine, Norrington (Stuttgart) and Savall, excepted.

[Dave2002]

Mine (the boxed set) neither; however, with so many recordings of those works to hand, very few get more than one or two outings, with Krivine, Norrington (Stuttgart) and Savall, excepted.

I'm not sure whether it was Haitink's performances which are/were the problem, or the recording. As I recall I eventually got the set with the surround sound - but it still hasn't been played much.

OTOH a few years ago when I was challenged to which conductor's work [may have been a side constraint of "still alive"] I liked most, I surprised myself in coming down in favour of Haitink above all others. I heard Haitink give many very good/outstanding performances over the years, at the Proms and at the Barbican, though I probably wouldn't have put his Beethoven quite so high up.

I also like - still do - Immerseel's Beethoven, amongst others including Krivine, and haven't yet got round to feeling the need to buy Savall's set - though it's probably excellent.

[Bryn]

I'm not sure whether it was Haitink's performances which are/were the problem, or the recording. As I recall I eventually got the set with the surround sound - but it still hasn't been played much.

OTOH a few years ago when I was challenged to which conductor's work [may have been a side constraint of "still alive"] I liked most, I surprised myself in coming down in favour of Haitink above all others. I heard Haitink give many very good/outstanding performances over the years, at the Proms and at the Barbican, though I probably wouldn't have put his Beethoven quite so high up.

I also like - still do - Immerseel's Beethoven, amongst others including Krivine, and haven't yet got round to feeling the need to buy Savall's set - though it's probably excellent.

Yes, the Immerseel set is very fine, though I would suggest avoiding his earlier recording of the 9th with the same orchestra but different soloists, for Sony. I picked that up cheap as a sale item at the RFH. Fortunately, I did not let it put me off later purchasing the Zig Zag set when it was released.

[Barbirollians]

I have now finished listening to the Savall set . I very much enjoyed the three instrumental movements of the Ninth especially the second movement and this was the first rather brisk Adagio that I have heard that I think also managed to express the deep feeling within it.

The finale - I found a relative disappointment a bit lightweight and underpowered ( too much imprinted by Furtwangler maybe ) singing perfectly fine but it just did not seem to take off. Still a very good Ninth and now I think just shading Brugge ( Philips) and Krivine as my favourite HIPP cycle .

PS Been back to the Fifth too and that is a very fine performance especially impressed by the transition from scherzo to finale - sometimes that does not cause the thrill and anticipation that it ought to - this Fifth very much does.

[Petrushka]

I see that DG are about to issue a Beethoven symphony set from Antal Dorati and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-R...s%2C125&sr=8-1

This seems to be a strange issue from, of all people, DG who have umpteen LvB cycles in their catalogue. Does anyone know the background to this particular cycle as I've never heard of its existence before and can't imagine DG issuing it if there wasn't good reason.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I see that DG are about to issue a Beethoven symphony set from Antal Dorati and the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-R...s%2C125&sr=8-1

This seems to be a strange issue from, of all people, DG who have umpteen LvB cycles in their catalogue. Does anyone know the background to this particular cycle as I've never heard of its existence before and can't imagine DG issuing it if there wasn't good reason.

Only yesterday, I was pondering Beethoven cycles. Of course, performers of stature see it as a milestone in their career to have the physical product brought to a paying public. But for myself, I question the need for yet more; I suppose I am the reverse of ever questing for new revelations.

To get back to the Dorati set, the Amazon blurb includes :
"Long unavailable, these scintillating recordings, combining weight and depth with dance-like clarity, are newly presented as a CD edition."

(The rest of the blurb: "For Antal Doráti, one of the mid-twentieth century's most gifted conductors, Beethoven was a central repertoire choice. This symphony cycle was recorded in 1975-76 at the beginning of his tenure as principal conductor of the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra.....")

I do hope these appear on streaming service - listen to find out whether the fuss is justified, and what the sound is like.