Beethoven Symphony Cycles

**Bryn** · 23-10-20, 16:33

Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post

Do you have to be a member, or on the Trial period to download that CD? Seems a very good deal to me, but I don't particularly want to be caught up in the subscription business again.

FWIW the Beethoven 9 is very good - I have it on LP and on CD - though I don't think it counts as HIPP.

I can't help re whether or hot you need a subscription to download since I do have one, so don't know what happens if you try to purchase a download without one. However, nothing ventured . . .

**cloughie** · 23-10-20, 17:03

Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post

Do you have to be a member, or on the Trial period to download that CD? Seems a very good deal to me, but I don't particularly want to be caught up in the subscription business again.

FWIW the Beethoven 9 is very good - I have it on LP and on CD - though I don't think it counts as HIPP.

Not even close!

**silvestrione** · 23-10-20, 17:05

Originally posted by crb11 View Post

The references to 1970 remind me: I was browsing through Gramophone archives of that year to see what they were recommending at the time of that anniversary, and it seemed the go-to reference set of the symphonies was by Schmidt-Isserstedt and the VPO, with the Ninth in particular being regarded highly. I've never seen any modern reference to them. Anyone heard them, and have they held up well at all?

In his recent Gramophone piece on the Ninth, Richard Osborne certainly praised this performance, though I can't remember if he got as far as including it in his recommendations (I've lent the mag to someone). It was the version I had first, loved it.

**crb11** · 23-10-20, 17:14

Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post

Do you have to be a member, or on the Trial period to download that CD? Seems a very good deal to me, but I don't particularly want to be caught up in the subscription business again.

FWIW the Beethoven 9 is very good - I have it on LP and on CD - though I don't think it counts as HIPP.

No, I downloaded it without being either.

I agree it's not HIPP: my point was that I think my difficulties with it could be accounted for by my personal preferences for the approach in this particular symphony. But I can sympathise with cloughie's feelings: some performances seem to go too far the other way, although it's usually the second movement and parts of the fourth rather than the third where I think a more measured approach would be preferable.

I got Karajan 1963 out for the first time in years as a comparison. His third movement worked a lot better for me, and I thought it was rather faster, only to discover afterwards that it was 30 seconds longer than Schimidt-Isserstedt. Odd.

**Bryn** · 23-10-20, 17:19

Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post

Do you have to be a member, or on the Trial period to download that CD? Seems a very good deal to me, but I don't particularly want to be caught up in the subscription business again.

FWIW the Beethoven 9 is very good - I have it on LP and on CD - though I don't think it counts as HIPP.

It dates from somewhat before the HIPP movement took off, and well before the modern critical editions of the scores were produced. It reflects the Wagnerian tradition regarding tempi, for instance. Within that context it is superb. In the interim, many issues, not least regarding tempi, have been clarified by the likes of Jonathan Del Mar et al.

**cloughie** · 23-10-20, 17:27

Originally posted by crb11 View Post

No, I downloaded it without being either.

I agree it's not HIPP: my point was that I think my difficulties with it could be accounted for by my personal preferences for the approach in this particular symphony. But I can sympathise with cloughie's feelings: some performances seem to go too far the other way, although it's usually the second movement and parts of the fourth rather than the third where I think a more measured approach would be preferable.

I got Karajan 1963 out for the first time in years as a comparison. His third movement worked a lot better for me, and I thought it was rather faster, only to discover afterwards that it was 30 seconds longer than Schimidt-Isserstedt. Odd.

Hipp versions of well-known works are viewed as either a breath of fresh air by some, or by others as an assault on an old friend. Take your choice or embrace both if you wish! Your ears and mind will decide!

**Dave2002** · 23-10-20, 17:34

Originally posted by crb11 View Post

I got Karajan 1963 out for the first time in years as a comparison. His third movement worked a lot better for me, and I thought it was rather faster, only to discover afterwards that it was 30 seconds longer than Schimidt-Isserstedt. Odd.

Karajan (not a conductor I was generally keen on) is superb in that particular symphony. I sampled all of the available DG ones some while back from local record and CD libraries. I'm not sure which of his recordings was most favoured. I think the last one was not considered as good as some of the earlier ones, but then one has (perhaps) to take recording quality into account as well.

**crb11** · 23-10-20, 17:37

Originally posted by silvestrione View Post

In his recent Gramophone piece on the Ninth, Richard Osborne certainly praised this performance, though I can't remember if he got as far as including it in his recommendations (I've lent the mag to someone). It was the version I had first, loved it.

The top recommendation was Furtwangler (Bayreuth, 1951), with the others being Harnoncourt (CoE,1991), Klemperer (Phil O, 1957) and Karajan (BPO, 1977) on DVD.

**Dave2002** · 23-10-20, 20:17

Originally posted by crb11 View Post

The top recommendation was Furtwangler (Bayreuth, 1951), with the others being Harnoncourt (CoE,1991), Klemperer (Phil O, 1957) and Karajan (BPO, 1977) on DVD.

The Youtube videos of some of Furtwängler's performances of the last movement are incredible.

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 23-10-20, 22:20

Originally posted by Bryn View Post

How dare they play it as the composer marked it.

Unfortunately some do try.

**cloughie** · 23-10-20, 22:24

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

Unfortunately some do try.

Yes but small fry compared to what Coltrane did to Rodgers!

**Eine Alpensinfonie** · 23-10-20, 22:25

Originally posted by cloughie View Post

My money’s still on this one Alps - I also had a copy of it.

Just a moment...

https://www.discogs.com/BeethovenRoyal-Philharmonic-Orchestra-Sir-Thomas-Beecham-Bart-CH-Symphony-No-8-In-F/release/14334052

...and crb11 the Schmidt-Isserstedt I still view as one of the best.

Yes. The cover design looks familiar. I can now 'see' it on top of our Bush record player. I think it's the one.

**BBMmk2** · 24-10-20, 07:55

Originally posted by cloughie View Post

Yes but small fry compared to what Coltrane did to Rodgers!

Never Beecham conducted Beethoven!

**cloughie** · 24-10-20, 09:23

Originally posted by BBMmk2 View Post

Never Beecham conducted Beethoven!

As well as 8, there were excellent RPO recordings of 2 6 and 7.

**silvestrione** · 24-10-20, 10:39

Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post

Unfortunately some do try.

Beethoven Symphony Cycles

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment