Beethoven Symphony Cycles

[Bryn]

I must start on that Walter box . Do try the Rhenish from 1941 I think.

Back to Adam Fischer I really enjoyed both the Fifth and the Pastoral where there seemed to be less point making. I cannot say the same for the Seventh and Eighth which struck me as frantic,noisy and charmless.

I must get round to spinning my Blu-rays of his younger brother's survey. The trouble is, I got it around the time Krivne's CDs and later videos on YouTube were my principal 'go-to' recordings. Given those options, Krivine always won out. Perhaps I could try a symphony by symphony audition of both Fischer brothers' surveys?

[richardfinegold]

Is that one which is still available in the USA? I have quite a lot of Walter’s works, on LPs and CDs, but the boxes which are available in the UK now don’t seem too attractive, or affordable. Maybe that’s just my impression though.

Its listed as the complete Columbia recordings, and it’s 78 CDs on Sony. The only negative is they chopped off the first few chords of Eine Kleine ...The sound is incredible, the best remastering that I’ve ever encountered...the 1940s recordings leap from the speakers and have real depth and bass, and the stereo recordings are better than most new recordings issued today

[Petrushka]

Its listed as the complete Columbia recordings, and it’s 78 CDs on Sony. The only negative is they chopped off the first few chords of Eine Kleine ...The sound is incredible, the best remastering that I’ve ever encountered...the 1940s recordings leap from the speakers and have real depth and bass, and the stereo recordings are better than most new recordings issued today

I've just played both versions of Eine Kleine in the Walter set (CDs 30 & 58) and both are perfectly fine. Which one are you saying has the first few chords missing? Agree with you on the re-mastering though, which is superb.

[Dave2002]

I've just played both versions of Eine Kleine in the Walter set (CDs 30 & 58) and both are perfectly fine. Which one are you saying has the first few chords missing? Agree with you on the re-mastering though, which is superb.

What is the orchestra in the early versions? The VPO perhaps? I think we still have the 78s - which have long been one of my favourites.

[Petrushka]

What is the orchestra in the early versions? The VPO perhaps? I think we still have the 78s - which have long been one of my favourites.

Walter's earliest recordings were with the VPO on HMV in the 1930s. The 77 CD set referred to is the Complete Columbia Recordings made by Walter upon his arrival in the USA between 1941 and 1962 and issued by Sony last year. They are mostly with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra (usually the Los Angeles PO or sometimes the NYPO, it occasionally gets complicated). Some early recordings are made with the NYPO (as named) or the Philadelphia Orchestra (in Beethoven 6)

The two recordings of Eine Kleine referred to by RF are CD 30 with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra (probably the NYPO) from 1954 and CD 58 with the Columbia Symphony Orchestra (probably the LAPO) in 1958. I don't notice the problem mentioned by richardfinegold.

On topic, there are two Beethoven cycles in the set (and two Brahms cycles).

[Barbirollians]

Aargh - the Adam Fischer Ninth - liked the first movement if lacking in mystery. The Scherzo , however, struck me as impossibly hectoring- like being jabbed in the neck for 13 minutes - just horrible . Not just a question of speed - I pulled out the Krivine as a comparison - just as quick but with dance and lightness missing from the Fischer.

It is a shame - the Adagio is likeable if not profound and there is gusto in the finale.

A very mixed bag of a cycle indeed.

[Barbirollians]

Onto the Monteux cycle on Eloquence. The First symphony sounds odd as if there is distortion in the recording . The second is just fab dancing along . The Eroica has very good reviews and I enjoyed it but not really in Erich Kleiber class . The Fourth on the other hand is now probably one of the best I have ever heard up there with the 1960s Karajan and the Philips Bruggen . The Fifth very traditional but a great example of the style. The Seventh is downright incandescent - another performance in the very highest class Strangely, the Eighth was just a bit meh - the Ninth mysterious lacking in extreme drama but very rewarding .

Oh and a just right Pastoral - full of “oh yes” moments.

[cloughie]

Onto the Monteux cycle on Eloquence. The First symphony sounds odd as if there is distortion in the recording . The second is just fab dancing along . The Eroica has very good reviews and I enjoyed it but not really in Erich Kleiber class . The Fourth on the other hand is now probably one of the best I have ever heard up there with the 1960s Karajan and the Philips Bruggen . The Fifth very traditional but a great example of the style. The Seventh is downright incandescent - another performance in the very highest class Strangely, the Eighth was just a bit meh - the Ninth mysterious lacking in extreme drama but very rewarding .

Oh and a just right Pastoral - full of “oh yes” moments.

I think that overall the LSO performances (2 4 5 7 9) and recording quality are better than the VPO ones (1 3 6 & 8). The later CAO Eroica is also good.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The VPO/Kleiber Eroica performance must rank among the finest ever. But I agree about the recorded sound. It sounds like a stereo recording with one channel missing.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Although I have several Beethoven symphony cycles, I'm not sure that it's the best way to listen to them. I did once listen to all the symphonies in a single day. That was 50 years ago, on 16th December, 1970, to mark the composer's bicentenary. On that occasion, I chose the versions I had on LP, mostly in mono: 1-Paray, 2-Paray, 3-E Kleiber, 4-Walter, 5-Walter, 6- Steinberg, 7-C Davis, 8-???, 9-Ansermet. (The 8th was on a Fontana 10" LP, but I can't remember who was playing).
I'm considering doing the same on 16/12/20, but only nos. 3 & 5 are likely to be the same versions.

[cloughie]

Although I have several Beethoven symphony cycles, I'm not sure that it's the best way to listen to them. I did once listen to all the symphonies in a single day. That was 50 years ago, on 16th December, 1970, to mark the composer's bicentenary. On that occasion, I chose the versions I had on LP, mostly in mono: 1-Paray, 2-Paray, 3-E Kleiber, 4-Walter, 5-Walter, 6- Steinberg, 7-C Davis, 8-???, 9-Ansermet. (The 8th was on a Fontana 10" LP, but I can't remember who was playing).
I'm considering doing the same on 16/12/20, but only nos. 3 & 5 are likely to be the same versions.

Was 8 Beecham?

[cloughie]

The VPO/Kleiber Eroica performance must rank among the finest ever. But I agree about the recorded sound. It sounds like a stereo recording with one channel missing.

Yes it’s good - it was on ACL as was the Ansermet mono!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Was 8 Beecham?

Possibly?? But I think I'd have remembered if it had been.

[Bryn]

Possibly?? But I think I'd have remembered if it had been.

Willem van Otterloo? I used to rather like his Pastoral on a 10" Fontana in my youth.

[Mario]

Willem van Otterloo? I used to rather like his Pastoral on a 10" Fontana in my youth.

There was an entire symphonic set issued on the Fontana label played by the Leipzig Gewandhaus orchestra under Frank Konwitschny.

Mario