Beethoven Symphony Cycles

[Wolfram]

I remember that Dutchman. It was good.

With the best Steuermann on disc in Richard Lewis.

[Opinionated Knowall]

A couple of years ago, I picked up (in a charity shop), Haitink’s final Beethoven cycle, with the LSO (LSO label).

I’d decided I had enough Beethoven integrales , but as this was so cheap (less than two quid), I thought it would be rude not to pick it up.

Well....I wish I’d left it there. The performances strike me as shockingly perfunctory and lackadaisical - as if both orchestra and conductor are thoroughly bored with the works. If you didn’t know it was the LSO, you’d probably think this was an above-average amateur band playing: and the conducting represents a sort of paradigm of anonymity.

Haitink was always talking about the ‘tyranny of the complete cycle’, while submitting himself to that very tyranny, time and time again. One wishes he’d refused the yoke on this occasion. This set really does him no favours at all.

Pulled this set off the shelf to see/hear for myself. Got to ask which are these amateur orchestras that sound like the LSO here? And while Haitink certainly isn't in the 'it's all about ME' camp of conductors, on the basis of Symphonies 1-3 these are deeply felt and satisfying performances. Recordings are a bit bass-heavy, but you have to feel for any recording team working in the Barbican...

[Petrushka]

A couple of years ago, I picked up (in a charity shop), Haitink’s final Beethoven cycle, with the LSO (LSO label).

I’d decided I had enough Beethoven integrales , but as this was so cheap (less than two quid), I thought it would be rude not to pick it up.

Well....I wish I’d left it there. The performances strike me as shockingly perfunctory and lackadaisical - as if both orchestra and conductor are thoroughly bored with the works. If you didn’t know it was the LSO, you’d probably think this was an above-average amateur band playing: and the conducting represents a sort of paradigm of anonymity.

Haitink was always talking about the ‘tyranny of the complete cycle’, while submitting himself to that very tyranny, time and time again. One wishes he’d refused the yoke on this occasion. This set really does him no favours at all.

I attended the concert that included Symphonies 1 & 9 in this set and I can assure you that neither Haitink, the LSO or. indeed, the audience were 'thoroughly bored'.

[richardfinegold]

I think Scherchen and Steinberg were always more respected as Beethoven interpreters than Dorati, Scherchen for his close-to-original-Metronome tempi, and Steinberg because, at 12s6d. on Music for Pleasure his discs were bargains, as the original Capitol recordings weren't then very old. Dorati of course was enjoying fame for his Haydn ; his Kodaly series was also well-received.

I had just purchased the Steinberg set when I came across a box of unopened lps. Ho hum performance and sound. Nothing to see here, folks

Btw, Steinberg was originally on the Command label

[Barbirollians]

That set was offered for about $5 as an mp3 . I downloaded it and hated it

Oh dear - I was amazed how sluggish Fricsay's Eroica i was - I disliked it so much I had to stop listening to it . Nothing like his good Ninth let alone his superb accompaniment to Annie Fischer in the Third Piano Concerto.

[Bryn]

That set was offered for about $5 as an mp3 . I downloaded it and hated it

IIRC, the Fontana manifestation excised the repeats which were found the original issues but which have since been restored in the much later CD release.

[HighlandDougie]

Btw, Steinberg was originally on the Command label

The Music for Pleasure LPs cited by Smittims were recorded by Steinberg with the Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra for Capitol Records in the 1950s - but not the complete cycle (3, 5, 6, 7, 8 and, with one exception - the 7th - in glorious mono).

The remastered Konwitschny cycle (in a rather attractive Berlin Classics box) has its moments but I have to confess that I don't often find myself reaching for it. Indeed, "never" might be more truthful.

[Alison]

The RPO/Dorati appeals for its relative obscurity but the full price is odd considering DG’s much cheaper Nezet-Seguin set.

[Alison]

Pulled this set off the shelf to see/hear for myself. Got to ask which are these amateur orchestras that sound like the LSO here? And while Haitink certainly isn't in the 'it's all about ME' camp of conductors, on the basis of Symphonies 1-3 these are deeply felt and satisfying performances. Recordings are a bit bass-heavy, but you have to feel for any recording team working in the Barbican...

Completely agree. Even Dave Hurwitz gives the Haitink 4 and 8 10/10 for performance.

[Joseph K]

I too have and like the LSO/Haitink.

[jayne lee wilson]

I think Scherchen and Steinberg were always more respected as Beethoven interpreters than Dorati, Scherchen for his close-to-original-Metronome tempi, and Steinberg because, at 12s6d. on Music for Pleasure his discs were bargains, as the original Capitol recordings weren't then very old. Dorati of course was enjoying fame for his Haydn ; his Kodaly series was also well-received.

Scherchen recorded several of the Beethoven Symphonies at least twice. It was mainly the RPO recordings of 2 and 8 that originally drew the attention for the (thrilling) speed merchantry. The riveting metronomic drive is also true of the later but less well known stereo 3 and 6 with the VSOO. The 6th is compelling, with a lovely flowing stream; but the 3rd suffers from some alarming indiscipline of ensemble.

But like his marvellous (if typically idiosyncratic ) Haydn, all his Beethoven readings have far more to commend them - the subtlety of rubato within those speeds, and the wonderfully nuanced playing, strings especially. This is even truer of the earlier 1950s Beethoven 1, 3, 6, 7 and 9 with the VSOO/VSO, with often measured tempi and an instinctively expressive rapport with the sound of Old Vienna. (the 1953 9th's 1st movement takes over 17'...)

Philosopher-King Scherchen had something special to say about both these great symphonists. His recordings have been special to me for some years....

[LHC]

I too have and like the LSO/Haitink.

Another me too. I also attended all of these concerts at the Barbican and they were anything but dull or routine.

Maybe it’s because I have heard the LSO at the Barbican a lot and am used to the acoustic, but I find the LSO Live recordings to be a pretty faithful rendering of the live performances, especially in surround sound on the SACDs, which are generally much better than the stereo CDs.

[Bryn]

Another me too. I also attended all of these concerts at the Barbican and they were anything but dull or routine.

Maybe it’s because I have heard the LSO at the Barbican a lot and am used to the acoustic, but I find the LSO Live recordings to be a pretty faithful rendering of the live performances, especially in surround sound on the SACDs, which are generally much better than the stereo CDs.

Damn it. I am going to have to get that set out of storage. There were just too many recent HIPP surveys around at the time of its release and it sort of got put to one side.

[Petrushka]

Damn it. I am going to have to get that set out of storage. There were just too many recent HIPP surveys around at the time of its release and it sort of got put to one side.

They're not HIPP but Haitink did use a slimmed down LSO with the timpani (hard sticks) interestingly placed at the extreme front right of the stage behind the second violins. The double basses were at the extreme left. At least this was the case on the evening I attended (Symphonies 1 & 9). Agree with LHC that the sound on the CDs is a pretty faithful representation of what I heard in the hall.

[Bryn]

They're not HIPP but Haitink did use a slimmed down LSO with the timpani (hard sticks) interestingly placed at the extreme front right of the stage behind the second violins. The double basses were at the extreme left. At least this was the case on the evening I attended (Symphonies 1 & 9). Agree with LHC that the sound on the CDs is a pretty faithful representation of what I heard in the hall.

Interesting that the November 2005 surround recordings are in 5.0 but by April 2006 they had decided to cater more for the home cinema, rather than the 'classical music', audience and moved to 5.1. Something of a backwards step, I think, not that it is much of a problem for me, I use full-range speakers with no sub-woofer for music, anyway.