Beethoven Symphony Cycles

[Nick Armstrong]

I loved Bruggen's Eroica, but for some reason I always thought that Phillips had withdrawn support for the complete cycle. I was delighted a couple of weeks ago to see that a full cycle had been recorded, and that the set was still available: 'tho' beyond my price range ! (Maybe I should contribute to Caliban's "Winning the Lottery" Thread?)

The Krivine set is priced around £25 - and Christmas is coming.

Yes, go and fantasise!!! Meantime, amazon wishlists are a wonderful thing to avoid misguided festive contributions (knitwear) from relatives and friends

[Bryn]

I loved Bruggen's Eroica, but for some reason I always thought that Phillips had withdrawn support for the complete cycle. I was delighted a couple of weeks ago to see that a full cycle had been recorded, and that the set was still available: 'tho' beyond my price range !

If it ever gets re-issued, I will certainly purchase a set. However, in the meantime, it might just be worth a Google. There are lossless downloads to be found, and if Universal are too daft to re-release it ...

Will I succumb to the temptation to get the Krivine? I fear I will.

Hmm. At £24.25 including p&p I did cave in. That was via the Amazon marketplace. Beware of the play.com route which at first appears a few pence cheaper. It leads to the US of A and high probability of customs charges.

[John Skelton]

I loved Bruggen's Eroica, but for some reason I always thought that Phillips had withdrawn support for the complete cycle. I was delighted a couple of weeks ago to see that a full cycle had been recorded, and that the set was still available: 'tho' beyond my price range ! (Maybe I should contribute to Caliban's "Winning the Lottery" Thread?)

The Krivine set is priced around £25 - and Christmas is coming.

I have the Brüggen set (smug gloat ); includes my favourite recording of the 7th, a lovely 'Pastoral': it's of a very high standard (it wasn't recorded as a 'cycle' which is perhaps how you lost touch with it. And I remember nos. 1 and 2 first appeared coupled with Mozart symphonies).

I was intrigued by Chailly's set and bought it when I really shouldn't have done. I had set myself a budget .... I am absolutely convinced by Beethoven's metronome markings, so that's a start. The one performance that stood out for me was the 'Eroica' and complete the 'Funeral March' doesn't come across as 'jaunty': it has a kind of forensic pathos which works for me. Otherwise I'm not so keen, which has a lot to do with the (for my taste) excessive body of strings in the orchestra and the acoustic of the recording. And how loudness seems to substitute for dynamics. After a while I felt bludgeoned by the experience. There's little wit or (again for me) not much that captures the sense of adventure within the music. It feels applied externally. But that's all personal and impressionistic.

Has anyone mentioned John Eliot Gardiner's ORR set? I have the original issue and have been listening to that after Chailly. It's very good (and is now to be had for under £15).

[barber olly]

I haven't felt moved to any recent aquisitions, but most curious about the Krivine, feel a bit cash-strapped now too...
Still enjoying Scherchen, especially the 1951 Pastoral, and Bruggen's wonderful, never reissued, still underrated cycle. Hear Scherchen for a lesson in how to play the 8th's finale at high speed! RPO seem to be loving every minute!

Scherchen's speeds are quick! Has anyone else coupled 3 and 6 on one CD? However much I enjoy the style and delivery of any individual conductor, the diversity of the Beethoven Symphonies means that no one conductor is going to be the very best in all nine. For me the best Eroica remains the 1955 Philharmonia/Klemperer but I don't often reach on my shelves for his Pastoral, give me Cluytens or E Kleiber.

[John Skelton]

Scherchen's speeds are quick! Has anyone else coupled 3 and 6 on one CD?

What repeats does he take, though?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

it wasn't recorded as a 'cycle' which is perhaps how you lost touch with it.

What a very charitable interpretation, John; I fear the actual reason is more basic, but I'll happily go along with this!

[ARBurton]

I`m afraid I found Chailly quite relentless & frenetic. NOt something I want to return to, and certainly not a worthy companion on the shelves to people like Zinman, Cluytens, Konwitschny, Furtwangler & Toscanini, Schuricht, et al..

[John Skelton]

I've been listening to Krivine's set, with La Chambre Philharmonique. Marvelous. Even if you don't need another 'set' of Beethoven's symphonies you need this (well, I do). The 7th is one of the most exhilarating performances of anything I've heard recently. I've tried again with Chailly, but for my taste the orchestra just sounds too big, period instruments are more interesting anyway and there's something remorselessly samey and po-faced about the interpretations (following the metronome marks is fine by me. It's the absence of dare and fun in Chailly).

[Bryn]

I've been listening to Krivine's set, with La Chambre Philharmonique. Marvelous. Even if you don't need another 'set' of Beethoven's symphonies you need this (well, I do). The 7th is one of the most exhilarating performances of anything I've heard recently. I've tried again with Chailly, but for my taste the orchestra just sounds too big, period instruments are more interesting anyway and there's something remorselessly samey and po-faced about the interpretations (following the metronome marks is fine by me. It's the absence of dare and fun in Chailly).

I am avoiding the Chailly, based on various opinions, both negative and positive, I have read. Strongly concur re. the Krivine survey. Even puts the Immerseel set marginally into the shade.

[vinteuil]

I've been listening to Krivine's set, with La Chambre Philharmonique. Marvelous. Even if you don't need another 'set' of Beethoven's symphonies you need this ....

... visiting this Board is beginning to prove quite expensive!

(But thank you... )

[amateur51]

I am avoiding the Chailly, based on various opinions, both negative and positive, I have read. Strongly concur re. the Krivine survey. Even puts the Immerseel set marginally into the shade.

Crikey, Bryn

Just listening to a Carlos Kleiber 'live' performance of Beethoven symphony no 4 - the balances & the build up & release of excitement he achieves in the first movement is thrilling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipbI14ju1G8

[barber olly]

I`m afraid I found Chailly quite relentless & frenetic. NOt something I want to return to, and certainly not a worthy companion on the shelves to people like Zinman, Cluytens, Konwitschny, Furtwangler & Toscanini, Schuricht, et al..

I have checked the timings of the Eroica on line - does he really do it in sub 43 mins? Stoopid , it's too b....y fast !

[Dave2002]

I listened to the 7th from the Cluytens set last night and was struck again (as I am throughout the set) by the glorious woodwind playing, the oboe in particular.

It is strange that after the appearance of umpteen Beethoven cycles over the years the Cluytens more than holds its own and seems to be the cycle of choice amongst those who discover it. Rather overshadowed by the almost contemporary Karajan cycle, I find it better played, better recorded and, dare I say it, better interpreted than its more famous rival.

The Chailly set is on my Christmas wish list even though I found the recent Barbican performance of No 9 too superficial. Chailly will do it all differently in 10 years time, to borrow a phrase from Karajan.

I didn't realise the Cluytens set was back in circulation - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Sy...1964128&sr=1-1 Last time I checked it was in a box from EMI which I passed over - perhaps a mistake.

Now what about Konwitschny? That too now seems available in the UK - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Co...1964257&sr=1-1 A few years ago that was only available from non UK sites.

[Dave2002]

Although I'm not a wild fan of Karajan, I do think his versions of Beethoven 9 are generally superb. I noticed this - which could well be a bargain - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Sy...=pd_sim_m_h__4

The question I have is which of K's recordings are these. The descriptions say Digital, but they also say Digital Remastering - so does that mean it's the early set (circa 1960s) remastered for digital, the middle one (circa 1970-1980), or the digital set? There's not enough information to be sure on this site.

PS: I stand corrected - there are reviews on the site, which indicate that this is a mono set and presumably predates even the 1960s recordings from DG.

[Karafan]

Hi Dave

This is his excellent Philharmonia cycle from the '50s and, yes, it is in mono. But, to paraphrase M&S, this isn't ordinary mono - it's Walter Legge's rather spiffing mono so you don't really miss the stereo spread all that much at all and the winds (The Royal Family) etc are lovingly captured.

Not at home to check, but I think they are all Kingsway Hall recordings.

BTW, this particular set you give the link to is one of EMI's few new recent remasterings (just a couple of years ago) and is a marked improvement on its predecessors and is definitely the version to go for if you're interested in his Philharmonia recordings.

Bws

Karafan