The Death of the CD?

[Bryn]

Many recordings of early music that I know were made in churches or 'appropriate' halls, not in purpose built recording studios. Sometimes the acoustic isn't that suitable (away from early music as such to my taste too many recordings of string quartets are made in churches, ditto piano recordings). The character of the acoustic is palpably 'there' and often 'ambient' sounds also: I know many early music recordings where the birds joining in are (a) clearly audible and (b) audible in a 'natural' sonic perspective. There are plenty of poorly engineered recordings and plenty of over-produced recordings, but in my experience they don't constitute the majority. I'm less familiar with the output of the 'major' labels or the rump of the 'major' labels than I am with the 'independents'.

[edit: it is, of course, perfectly possible to make a fine recording in a studio. And it's also the case that certain 'natural' recording perspectives wouldn't necessarily work for some new music]

I you listen carefully (how else?) one can hear pigeons cooing in the rafters of the church (Petersham) in which Decca recorded John Tilbury playing Cage's Sonatas and Interludes in the '70s. More recently, the Mode recording of Margaret Leng Tan playing the same work captures a hearth cricket which opted to 'sing along'. Though he could probably have used some clever digital techniques to remove the accompanist, Brian Brandt decided to leave well alone. I feel sure that John Cage would have approved of that decision.

[Don't expect to hear the cricket in the 3 sonatas Brian has posted on You Tube. In those particular sonatas the insect remained silent.]

[amateur51]

I you listen carefully (how else?) one can hear pigeons cooing in the rafters of the church (Petersham) in which Decca recorded John Tilbury playing Cage's Sonatas and Interludes in the '70s. More recently, the Mode recording of Margaret Leng Tan playing the same work captures a hearth cricket which opted to 'sing along'. Though he could probably have used some clever digital techniques to remove the accompanist, Brian Brandt decided to leave well alone. I feel sure that John Cage would have approved of that decision.

how wonderful!

[cloughie]

how wonderful!

Would they have removed the pigeons if they had been recording 4'33" ?

[John Skelton]

Thanks Bryn - you've inspired me to give that John Tilbury recording a play later on .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Would they have removed the pigeons if they had been recording 4'33" ?

Depends if the recording was intended to enable the listener to create his/her own 4'33" whilst playing the CD "at home" (in which case, the pigeons would probably be edited out), or as a recording of a particular performance of the piece (in this case with pigeons).

[old khayyam]

I you listen carefully (how else?) one can hear pigeons cooing in the rafters of the church (Petersham) in which Decca recorded John Tilbury playing Cage's Sonatas and Interludes in the '70s. More recently, the Mode recording of Margaret Leng Tan playing the same work captures a hearth cricket which opted to 'sing along'. Though he could probably have used some clever digital techniques to remove the accompanist, Brian Brandt decided to leave well alone. I feel sure that John Cage would have approved of that decision.

[Don't expect to hear the cricket in the 3 sonatas Brian has posted on You Tube. In those particular sonatas the insect remained silent.]

Indeed i have an LP of the bells of a major French cathedral circa 1966. The cover-notes warn the listener that, despite best efforts, the birds could not be vanquished from the tower for the duration of the recording, in case we should wonder what the noises are. As an ornithologist as well as campanologist, i was truly delighted to read of such content!

Sadly, however, my modern 'hi-fi' is not up to the standard expected in the 60s, and i cant hear a single tweet.

[cloughie]

Indeed i have an LP of the bells of a major French cathedral circa 1966. The cover-notes warn the listener that, despite best efforts, the birds could not be vanquished from the tower for the duration of the recording, in case we should wonder what the noises are. As an ornithologist as well as campanologist, i was truly delighted to read of such content!

Sadly, however, my modern 'hi-fi' is not up to the standard expected in the 60s, and i cant hear a single tweet.

More worryingly are your ears as good as they were in the 60s?

[old khayyam]

More worryingly are your ears as good as they were in the 60s?

Getting better all the time

[Ferretfancy]

In my earlier posting I certainly did not wish to suggest that all modern digital recordings are bad, but simply that the post production mix downs can be very unconvincing, good ones mat not be recognised as such! Nevertheless there is still a "go for broke" approach which can lead to poor results. One of the things I notice in the concert hall is that woodwinds rarely sound as recessed as they do on many recordings, analogue included, and that the dynamics are often not as wide as the engineers make them. A good example is the analogue Karajan / BPO version of Smetana's Vltava. It's very beautifully played, but in the middle section the winds have been given a distant ethereal effect that is entirely artificial, they simply would not be heard like that in the hall.

Bryn, I agree that the BBC's decision to outsource their Proms coverage has been a disaster. Some of the TV cameramen are still there as freelancers, but the radio crew are all new. Staff studio managers had years of collective experience in dealing with the RAH acoustic, but sadly that experience is now history and we are experiencing the effect

[DublinJimbo]

I agree that the BBC's decision to outsource their Proms coverage has been a disaster. Some of the TV cameramen are still there as freelancers, but the radio crew are all new. Staff studio managers had years of collective experience in dealing with the RAH acoustic, but sadly that experience is now history and we are experiencing the effect

It's highly educational to compare the sensitivity of the coverage in the Berlin Phil's Digital Concert Hall with the often-at-odds-with-the-music visuals from the Proms. And as for the wretched day-glow backdrops and the formulaic presentation style!

[Mahlerei]

Agreed about the Digital Concert Hall. The lack of 'presenters' is a real boon.

[old khayyam]

If i can add just one more factor: Consider perhaps that the recording engineer, live or studio, is in the employ of the record company/broadcasting corporation. The last thing he/she wants to do is sit back and say 'less is more'. They have to make it look like they are worth the while (plus all the equipment secretly makes them feel important). To them there is no venue good enough to leave the sound untreated. However, they will rarely, if ever, go to the trouble of measuring the acoustics beforehand, in order for the technology to work harmoniously with the environment.

[jayne lee wilson]

In my earlier posting I certainly did not wish to suggest that all modern digital recordings are bad, but simply that the post production mix downs can be very unconvincing, good ones mat not be recognised as such! Nevertheless there is still a "go for broke" approach which can lead to poor results. One of the things I notice in the concert hall is that woodwinds rarely sound as recessed as they do on many recordings, analogue included, and that the dynamics are often not as wide as the engineers make them. A good example is the analogue Karajan / BPO version of Smetana's Vltava. It's very beautifully played, but in the middle section the winds have been given a distant ethereal effect that is entirely artificial, they simply would not be heard like that in the hall.

Bryn, I agree that the BBC's decision to outsource their Proms coverage has been a disaster. Some of the TV cameramen are still there as freelancers, but the radio crew are all new. Staff studio managers had years of collective experience in dealing with the RAH acoustic, but sadly that experience is now history and we are experiencing the effect

Are you sure about the radio staff? I forget the name of the company who took on the TV broadcasts, but on their website during the 2011 Proms they boasted of covering about 20, I think, perhaps less - i.e the number televised. It seemed then that the radio-only broadcast and webcasts were still with Rupert Brun and so on. At least, that's all I could find out at the time...

I was disappointed when the Berlin DCH reduced their top audio rate from 320 to 192 kbps for the live stream - I was told it would go back up to 256 but I don't think it has yet.... does anyone take it regularly? Seems the only way to find out is to buy a ticket and watch...

[Beef Oven]

Death of the CD

Digital downloads have now overtaken sales of CDs

Is this the end of physical formats?

[ahinton]

Digital downloads have now overtaken sales of CDs

Is this the end of physical formats?

Given the number of CDs still being issued, it could be argued that rumours of its death are not only exaggerated but also premature.