The Death of the CD?

[Ferretfancy]

When LPs first appeared they didn't get unvarnished praise, and there were similar complaints of thin dry sound. What's more many early releases on Decca were dubbed from 78s, and remastering was primitive back then, but recording and playback improved quite quickly. The glassy quality that was evident on early CDs when they appeared was also not very pleasant, but improvements were made, particularly with the design of the recorders themselves.
I would contend that although there are differences between vinyl and CD, both formats can be very good, especially if like is compared to like. Many critics of CD already own high end vinyl playback, but compare its performance with that of an average CD player

We all tend to quietly overlook the fact that a great deal of tweeking goes on at the studio end of the chain,using equalisation in microphone channels, digital delay, added reverb, and lots more. This was even more the case with mastering for LP. As an example, I once heard two different versions of the famous Monteux Enigma Variations. The pressings for RCA in America were given a fequency boost at 7k, because that was what sold best in the States. This extra 7k was not on the Decca pressings when the disc was issued here. Disc cutting is a difficult art, and the best studio masters were carefully tailored for optimum dynamics and channel separation with the cutting engineer's work in mind.

I personally value earlier stereo recordings with good separation, a wide but not too wide dynamic range, and a real sense of the location, using a minimal number of mics. Apart from anything else, they deliver much more realistic string sound compared to more recent recordings. I was listening recently to the Inkinen Sibelius recordings with the New Zealand SO on Naxos. They are not the finest Sibelius available, but the sound is so artificial that it's difficult to assess the orchestra's playing

[Mahlerei]

ferret

Just been listening to 24bit download of Bizet's Symphony in C (Ansermet/SRO) and the separation, body and general sense of 'presence' a wonder to behold.

[Ferretfancy]

ferret

Just been listening to 24bit download of Bizet's Symphony in C (Ansermet/SRO) and the separation, body and general sense of 'presence' a wonder to behold.

Mahlerei

It was nice to see your thumbs up for the Ansermet, I've just listened to the slow movement of the Bizet on the Eloquence CD set, and very fine it is. The engineer was Roy Wallace in 1960.
He came to Decca to design their stereo equipment, which was very basic originally, and they set it up for the first time at Geneva's Victoria Hall on 13th May 1954 to record Rimsky-Korsakov's Antar. This was the company's very first commercial stereo recording, although of course it was not issued until the advent of stereo discs. At the playback in 1954 they waited anxiously for Ansermet's verdict, and he said it was wonderful, as if he was standing at his desk.
That pioneering Antar still sounds good today, and was issued in the Decca Sound series.
It's interesting that Victoria Hall is supposed to be a difficult venue, as it has a comparatively narrow platform, but some of the best recordings have been made there.

[jayne lee wilson]

Absolutely agree to this! Two 2ndhand CDs I picked up recently - Rakhmaninov's The Bells (RCO/Ashkenazy) and Poulenc's Stabat Mater (Baudo/Lyon) were made in 1986 and 1985 respectively, and are of an Audiophile excellence! Often find the earliest issue is the best, watch out for cheaply produced reissues!

I'm puzzled by those who "knock" the quality of early CDs. The first one I bought - Dutoit's Daphnis & Chloe - sounded ravishing on its first appearance, and still does today. It's true that there were some DG recordings that sounded agressive and strident, such as Bernstein's Franck D minor Symphony, but that had nothing to do with the medium, just DG's poor digital recording set-up in those days.

[jayne lee wilson]

See msg 28 in the D/A Converters thread - I had the supertweeters here on trial for a week before committing to them... it's how I chose everything (and sent a lot back) with few exceptions - why do people imagine you'd make such an important purchase without a lengthy test-drive?

The problem with blind tests is back to human perception again - the more you hear a symphony, the more you hear in it, and I think the same is true of sonic subtleties in recordings and equipment. And rapid A/B switching is a totally unnatural way to listen - not to mention (potentially) very confusing.

Imagine playing brief snatches of song from Mistle Thrush, Song Thrush or Blackbird and asking someone to identify them repeatedly. The ear and the brain need longer.

there could be many reasons - eg a better match between your speakers and the driving amplifier - as my referenced article pointed out perfect blind testing is very diificult but whereas having spent much money on a system I suspect most if not all will claim it sounds better even though such results seem extremely difficult to reproduce in blind tests

[jayne lee wilson]

Mahlerei, go back for the Honegger 4th - it's from Victoria Hall again, and wonderful too!

ferret

Just been listening to 24bit download of Bizet's Symphony in C (Ansermet/SRO) and the separation, body and general sense of 'presence' a wonder to behold.

[Parry1912]

Mahlerei, go back for the Honegger 4th - it's from Victoria Hall again, and wonderful too!

Don't forget, these are now available on CD again as part of a 3CD set: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-N...1413624&sr=8-1

[Mahlerei]

Mahlerei

It was nice to see your thumbs up for the Ansermet, I've just listened to the slow movement of the Bizet on the Eloquence CD set, and very fine it is. The engineer was Roy Wallace in 1960.
He came to Decca to design their stereo equipment, which was very basic originally, and they set it up for the first time at Geneva's Victoria Hall on 13th May 1954 to record Rimsky-Korsakov's Antar. This was the company's very first commercial stereo recording, although of course it was not issued until the advent of stereo discs. At the playback in 1954 they waited anxiously for Ansermet's verdict, and he said it was wonderful, as if he was standing at his desk.
That pioneering Antar still sounds good today, and was issued in the Decca Sound series.
It's interesting that Victoria Hall is supposed to be a difficult venue, as it has a comparatively narrow platform, but some of the best recordings have been made there.

Another Decca/Ansermet classic is Chabrier's España. I have never heard it played with such bounce, or heard it sound so vital. It's on one of those Eloquence reissues. Fab.

[HighlandDougie]

One of the joys of the Decca Sound box is Ansermet's 'Three-Cornered Hat' - Decca engineering at its very best (and an excellent performance). It's had me digging out Ansermet LPs - and I'm much looking forward to the Honegger reissues

[Don Petter]

Another Decca/Ansermet classic is Chabrier's España. I have never heard it played with such bounce, or heard it sound so vital. It's on one of those Eloquence reissues. Fab.

That recording was the first stereo I ever heard. It was being played in the local electrical shop, to the wonderment of assorted villagers (probably muttering about 'devils in black boxes'). So it has a special place in my heart, as well!

[cloughie]

That recording was the first stereo I ever heard. It was being played in the local electrical shop, to the wonderment of assorted villagers (probably muttering about 'devils in black boxes'). So it has a special place in my heart, as well!

There was also an early Decca Espana by LSO Argenta which was demo quality!

[pastoralguy]

There was also an early Decca Espana by LSO Argenta which was demo quality!

Oh yes! Successive neighbours have got to know that one well...

[jayne lee wilson]

I have this on an LIM XRCD24 (no.016, titled, "Espana" with Rimsky etc.) of staggering quality with the CD in a lavish hardback cover and the original cover art... Truly stunning transfer, but god knows if it's still around or what the price might be now. If you find it...

There was also an early Decca Espana by LSO Argenta which was demo quality!

[old khayyam]

One more go before i leave the subject. Vinyl is the format i grew up with. When i first began buying music it came on LP, always did. Given my view that no music of historical value has been made for some decades now (with a few exceptions), i see no reason not to remain in the tresure chest of cheap second-hand vinyl.

I was already quite ripe in age when CDs were launched. Word was that they are much clearer and brighter, better sound separation, and 'you can hear much more than before'. It took me a few years to remember that some music is intentionally made to sound murky, at least in some passages, in order to create a cloud of ambiguity, subtlety, and nuance, or just to build some kind of chemistry between the instruments. The other realisation was that all the recordings we were buying bore the slogan "digitally (re)mastered". I questioned whether the common reaction 'you can hear so much more!' was a virtue of the format or the remastering. In other words, i have never heard a CD containing music that wasnt mastered for the CD.

I have a lifelong friend who is an audiophile. He builds his own hifi from the components up. I sympathised with his audio-obsession for years, attempting to hear what he heard when he said he was listening to his new tweeters, new stylus, new cabling. About the time he began enthusing about the sound of his new capacitors, i gave up. With or without his mentoring, i wouldnt know if it was the capacitors, the valves, the stylus, or the 180gm pressing that i was listening to. That was the time i realised i have had many, many enjoyable times with music on numerous 'low quality' hifi sets, none of which make it sound 'as if the musicians are in the room'. And i reasoned that each set brings out a different voice of its own, so to speak.

"I came out by the same door as in i went"

[MrGongGong]

One more go before i leave the subject. Vinyl is the format i grew up with. When i first began buying music it came on LP, always did. Given my view that no music of historical value has been made for some decades now (with a few exceptions), i see no reason not to remain in the tresure chest of cheap second-hand vinyl.

How would you know if you never listen to any of it ?
Strange indeed