Your recommendable recordings of Parsifal?

[Tapiola]

Thanks for the warning. I've put my copy away for Christmas so had better get it checked later. Are you able to get the correct CD's?

Petrushka,

I had originally thought of replacing the execrable Gebhardt with these Membran discs. I think (hope) I am within the period for returns for Amazon. If not, it was only 14 pounds all in.

[Mandryka]

Petrushka,

I had originally thought of replacing the execrable Gebhardt with these Membran discs. I think (hope) I am within the period for returns for Amazon. If not, it was only 14 pounds all in.

Interesting...I bought mine from the Hut (couple of quid cheaper, cheapskate that I am) and am waiting for it to arrive (it was posted on Friday, but the Hut is notably slower than Amazon). If this is a batch fault or authoring error, it'll be the second time I've had to return a vintage Ring (previously, it was Knappertsbusch's 1960 performance, from MDC - they couldn't get a replacement). Very annoying, but thank you for the heads-up.

Karajan re-arranges the scenes in Die Frau.....which rules his version (on DG, from Salzburg Festival 1964) right out of court for most Straussians. Peronsally, I find a lot to enjoy in it, but that's just me....

[Petrushka]

Petrushka,

I had originally thought of replacing the execrable Gebhardt with these Membran discs. I think (hope) I am within the period for returns for Amazon. If not, it was only 14 pounds all in.

Just checked - all my CD's seem OK including 6 & 7. Won't save it for Christmas now and will get something else instead!

[umslopogaas]

Petrushka #4, according to the Rough Guide to Opera, there are six known recordings of Parsifal by Knappertsbusch, all live. One is the Bayreuth 1951 version and another is the 1962 one, also from Bayreuth. Unfortunately it doesnt give any more details of the other four.

I once found a secondhand 3 CD set on the Virtuoso label of a 1950 Rome recording with the Radio Italiana Rome Orch. and Chorus, conducted by Vittorio Gui. The cover proudly announces "More than three hours" which I think is code for "cut". Its also sung in Italian. But the main interesting feature is the cast: Maria Callas as Kundry, Rolando Panerai as Amfortas and one of my all-time favourite singers, Boris Christoff as Gurnemanz. Fascinating to hear Callas in Wagner at an early stage in her singing career, though I'm relieved she moved on to other things.

I've also got Karajan on CD and Solti and Knappertsbusch 50 and 62 on vinyl. I think if I could only have one, it would be Karajan, though Solti would be hard to abandon, he has a wonderful cast ... and the VPO ... and Decca sound ... no, its no good, you have to have both.

[Karafan]

Thanks for the remarks, boys & girls - keep 'em coming!

(An aside: the Siegfried (on Membran) being referred to - is this the RAI '53 WF Ring. I have the Gebhardt set and have been very satisfied with the sound (well, as pleased as you can be with the sound of the '53 WF Ring) - but do I sense someone thinks this set has poor sound compared to Membran (and does someone have a link to the Membran - is it the cycle or just Siegfried?). Thanks, K.

[Tapiola]

Karafan,

I would argue that the sound on both Gebhardt and the Membran (aka EMI?) is compromised, but for very different reasons. The Gebhardt sound is very clear and upfront (as you know), but the mid-range has been boosted to such an extent that the highs and (much more seriously) the lows have been affected. There is no bass to speak of, in fact. The sound frequently overloads at climaxes and the whole thing sounds as though it were recorded in a church hall or school assembly hall. The EMI has been cut at a much lower level and is rather muffled (very muffled in comparison to the Gebhardt), but the depth of sound is retained and a strong bass is present - very important in WF.

Apparently the EMI lps from the 70s are in the best sound of the three.

Here is a link to the Membran, which, bizarrely, comes in a ten inch square box as opposed to a cd-sized box. And yes, the full cycle is here.

Sound-wise, it's horses for courses I suppose. I initially favoured the bright Gebhardt over the EMI though I now grudgingly prefer the EMI (the bass presence being the clincher for me) - I am no great fan of many of their "remasterings" of old material (Schnabel's Beethoven being the most glaring example).

[Barbirollians]

I am afraid I am of the view that life is too short for Parsifal.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm with Mandy*: '51 Kna and '80 Karajan for me.

The Solti was vigorously recommended on the Old MBs: I still haven't got round to making the opportunity to hear it, but the reminders here will spur me to new efforts.

Barenboim, Thielemann anyone?


(* = Incidentally, I never knew Karajan reordered the scenes in Frau Ohne Schatten! His is the only version I have or have ever heard, and I've never seen a score.)

Best Wishes.

[gurnemanz]

I am on a bit of a Wagner kick at the moment, and have just enjoyed the 1962 Kna Bayreuth recording (Jess Thomas, Hans Hotter and George London),

My touchstone recording is also that Knappertsbusch which I originally bought on LP, but I have a soft spot for Herbert Kegel's live Leipzig version from 1975 with Rene Kollo at which I was present (not performing, as my pseudonym might suggest... though I did offer). Since it was not obvious how to make out a socialist realist interpretation for the opera and it was hardly ever performed in East Germany and was rapturously received with a 30-minute ovation at the end.

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classRev/2008/Oct08/Wagner_parsifal_0184402.htm

Most Parsifal devotees will want this classic Naxos 2CD set of historical highlights:

http://www.mdt.co.uk/MDTSite/product/CD/8110049-50.htm

You get to hear the original bells that sadly got melted down for the Nazi war effort. This is a quote from our very Mr Cowan reviewing the discs:
"Seventy-two years on and Wagner's 'Bayreuth Bells', the ones designed specifically for use in Parsifal... still set up the most unbelievable din. Their low-pitch sonorous clanging crowns the First-Act 'Transformation Music' on an amazingly vivid 1927 Bayreuth Festival recording conducted by Karl Muck."

[ostuni]

I love the Kna 51, especially for Mödl's terrifyingly intense Kundry. Heresy, I'm sure, but I find Hotter's elderly voice (as in the 64 Kna, and the Solti Ring) very unattractive, so have never bought it - listened to lots on Spotify, though. My favourite Parsifal in more modern sound has to be the Kubelik, though I've also found much to enjoy in the very recent van Zweden.

[Karafan]

Karafan,

I would argue that the sound on both Gebhardt and the Membran (aka EMI?) is compromised, but for very different reasons. The Gebhardt sound is very clear and upfront (as you know), but the mid-range has been boosted to such an extent that the highs and (much more seriously) the lows have been affected. There is no bass to speak of, in fact. The sound frequently overloads at climaxes and the whole thing sounds as though it were recorded in a church hall or school assembly hall. The EMI has been cut at a much lower level and is rather muffled (very muffled in comparison to the Gebhardt), but the depth of sound is retained and a strong bass is present - very important in WF.

Apparently the EMI lps from the 70s are in the best sound of the three.

Here is a link to the Membran, which, bizarrely, comes in a ten inch square box as opposed to a cd-sized box. And yes, the full cycle is here.

Sound-wise, it's horses for courses I suppose. I initially favoured the bright Gebhardt over the EMI though I now grudgingly prefer the EMI (the bass presence being the clincher for me) - I am no great fan of many of their "remasterings" of old material (Schnabel's Beethoven being the most glaring example).

Thanks for the info and link, Tapiola. Very interesting indeed.....

As for Herbert Kegel's offering I found him far too whipcrack for my tastes on a hearing some years ago - the transformation music is taken at such a lick (compared to Kna 62 who always seems soooo right!) I couldn't bear him. Reminded me of an 'Enigma' under Solti I bought as a callow youth, only to return it the following day, airily informing the nonplussed assistant that "I prefer not to have my Elgar vying for a land-speed record"!

K.

[Mandryka]

I have the Kegel recording, but have only listened to it the once: my impression then was a fast (but not alarmingly so) interpretation, hindered by a largely undistinguished cast (all East German opera house stalwarts, I think, apart from Kollo and Adam). The scene with the Flower Maidens in Act 2, in this version, surely represents speed dating avant la lettre.

Thielemann is good, though saddled with a very average Gurnemanz.

Currently listening to the Membran Ring, which arrived in its LP box today (!). So far, so good: I've only previously heard this version on the remastered EMI vinyl and that was all of twenty years ago, so can't really comment on the various issues: so far, this sounds very clear with plenty of bass.

[Mandryka]

Btw, what do we think of Boulez as a Parsifalian? He is not Michael Tanner's cup of tea, for sure!

I'd also like to put in another word for the 1980 Kubelik set, which appeared concurrently with the Karajan and was heavily (and unfairly) overshadowed as a result: Kurt Moll's examplary Gurnemanz is common to both sets. I would strongly recommend it.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Petrushka,

I had originally thought of replacing the execrable Gebhardt with these Membran discs. I think (hope) I am within the period for returns for Amazon. If not, it was only 14 pounds all in.

Your local trading standards officer speaking here! If you mean the 7-day cancellation right (Distance Selling Regs), that's a different issue: it gives you extra rights beyond Sale of Goods Act principles on faulty goods, e.g. when you just decide you don't like the item. (Though NB with CDs/DVDs you lose that right once you break any seal on the discs, to stop people sending stuff straight back once they've copied it.)

Rights on faulty goods last a lot longer than 7 days, even though you should always act as soon as you discover the fault, and you're in a better position the earlier you find and report it. If you first play the discs weeks after purchase, you may technically have lost your right to reject the goods and 'rescind the contract'. Rescission puts the parties back to where they were before the contract, so you get a full refund and they get the goods back. But the next remedy if you've lost your right to reject, compensatory damages for the fault you're stuck with, only makes sense on an opera set if the damages are 100% (because you've got to buy another complete set to get the missing disc). That's why if you're suitably firm you'll probably get a new set out of them. At least they then get the dodgy set back and may get a credit from their own supplier.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Btw, what do we think of Boulez as a Parsifalian? He is not Michael Tanner's cup of tea, for sure!

Well, Tanner wants performances to reflect the Philosophy he "hears" in this (these) magnificent score(s) and is somewhat intolerant of the notion that there might be other equally valid features upon which Musicians would wish to concentrate. Like the notes.

It's been a twenty or so years since I heard the Boulez (the cassette tapes got mangled in my car player through overuse) but I remember it with great affection and admiration: clean, well paced, with a strong ear for detail and a secure knowledge of where the Music is going. Closer to Toscanini* than to Furtwangler* (cooler, but of equal if opposite intensity) and, whilst not how I would want the work to sound every time I heard it, white-hot in comparison with Levine's tepid sluggishness.


(* = Now there's a pair of "if only" recordings!)