Cantelli at Oxfam

[Ferretfancy]

I was browsing in my local Oxfam today, and found an LP of Cantelli and the Philharmonia in Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet, coupled with the Siegfried Idyll. I have the latter on CD, but not the Romeo. The Old Record Guide has high praise for it, revealing that it's a transfer from 78s. It was not unusual to find this back in 1951.
It's certainly a thrilling performance, and as it's available on a Testament CD with the Pathetique, I've now decided to buy it from Amazon.

The curious thing was the attitude of the volunteer staff in the shop when I asked them to price it, as it had no tag. The lady on the till had already failed to serve two other customers while I was browsing, because she could not work it properly, and seemed baffled by my request, vanishing into the bowels of the premises. After a longish wait, a surly youth of about eighteen appeared, and began shuffling through the rack. Was he thinking that I'd pinched the price label? Finally, and with ill grace he suggested £2.

I asked -"Is there any logical pricing system here? For instance do you rate old monos as less pricey than stereos? " " I don't know, he said, I'm not the music manager "
The truth is that nobody in the shop has any idea whether a disc is of interest or not. In the rack they had a late fifties recording on an obscure label of the Ravel Left Hand Concerto played by Paul Wittgenstein, no less. It was valued at £1, perhaps I've missed a bargain !

[Karafan]

From your subject line, Ferret, I thought you'd spotted him down there sniffing out a bargain!

Seriously though, for anyone interested in Cantelli (and his Philharmonia recordings from Kingsway Hall are wonderful - less so IMHO his NBCSO recordings from the dreaded bone-dry acoustic of the soulless Studio 8H!) I can recommend Laurence Lewis's book:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guido-Cantelli-Portrait-Laurence-Lewis/dp/0498024938/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1318353304&sr=1-1

Bws

Karafan

[Ferretfancy]

Karafan

Thanks for that link. I have the Testament set which includes his Brahms 1, and the Artist Profile set with his Brahms 3, Beethoven 5 and a sprightly Mozart 29, plus that interesting but very dry NBC Cesar Franck with some other items.
I did see him conduct the Philharmonia once at the Royal Festival Hall, and a friend persuaded me to sneak in with him for an autograph, which he happily gave. Afterwards we travelled down in the lift with Charles Chaplin, who refused my friend's request by saying "It's not my night "

After all these years I cringe at the thought that we got away with it! There's much more security these days.

Incidentally, I have wracked my brains trying to remember what was played, but I haven't forgotten the sense of occasion

[verismissimo]

Wonderful list of Cantelli recordings at Testament. Stewart Brown must like his work. As do I.

http://www.testament.co.uk/shop/search.aspx?q=cantelli

[umslopogaas]

post #1 Ferretfancy. That would be HMV ALP 1086, I assume? I have a 2006 Price Guide to classical LPs, and bearing in mind that it is five years out of date and only ever intended as a guide, it suggests a blemish-free copy of that one would fetch £10. Not one of your big items, I'm afraid. If you come across any LPs in that HMV mono series featuring orchestral items conducted by Furtwangler, or violin works played by Ginette Neveu or Gioconda da Vito, that's a different matter, snap 'em up, you're into serious money.

What was the label and number of the Wittgenstein recording? It might be in my guide.

[Karafan]

Karafan

Thanks for that link. I have the Testament set which includes his Brahms 1, and the Artist Profile set with his Brahms 3, Beethoven 5 and a sprightly Mozart 29, plus that interesting but very dry NBC Cesar Franck with some other items.
I did see him conduct the Philharmonia once at the Royal Festival Hall, and a friend persuaded me to sneak in with him for an autograph, which he happily gave. Afterwards we travelled down in the lift with Charles Chaplin, who refused my friend's request by saying "It's not my night "

After all these years I cringe at the thought that we got away with it! There's much more security these days.

Incidentally, I have wracked my brains trying to remember what was played, but I haven't forgotten the sense of occasion

Great reminiscence Ferret - I think the music-loving public and Toscanini, in particular, felt his loss very keenly.

Karafan

[Ferretfancy]

umslopogaas

It is indeed ALP 1086, and of course its contents are all on Testament CDs.
I didn't make a note of the Wittgenstein recording's number I'm afraid. If I pass the shop I'll check it out. My point really was that Oxfam really have no idea of what might be of interest, and what might not.

[Biffo]

Most charity shops sell such a wide range of stuff that they can't be expected to know the value of everything but I would expect courteous service. My two local shops, Samaritans and British Red Cross, only have the very occasional bargain in classical music but the staff are always friendly. Oxfam did open a chain of shops only selling books and records (CDs, LPs, MCs) but I am not sure if it still going. There it seemed to be a case of a little learning being a dangerous thing as practically everything was overpriced, especially CDs.

[umslopogaas]

Yes, there was a time when Oxfam used to sell all its donated vinyl very cheaply. Then they got wise to the fact that they were letting stuff go for a pound that was fetching fifty quid on ebay, so they employed a consultant to value their stock. He (it would have been a he, in thirty years of collecting vinyl I have never met a female collector) had a very inflated idea of values and suddenly the prices went through the roof. It may be that he no longer advises them, I cant check because our local Oxfam closed down, the landlord put up the rent and they couldnt afford to stay.

I should add that I have never found anything worth buying in a charity shop. Typically, what happens is that the owner of a collection dies and the beneficiaries of the estate dont want it, so they call in a dealer. He picks the eyes out and leaves behind a residue that is financially worthless, either because no-one collects it or because its damaged. This then gets dumped on the local charity shop. I'd advise anyone thinking of buying in Oxfam to check the quality extremely carefully. At least when you pay good money to a dealer you can be confident of the condition, because to stay in business a dealer cant afford to palm off his customers with damaged goods. Charity shops arent so constrained.

[verismissimo]

...in thirty years of collecting vinyl I have never met a female collector...

Lord Harewood says the same in his memoirs, The Tongs and the Bones, um.

And it's my experience (of 47 years) too!

[Biffo]

There are forums similar to this one on Amazon.co.uk and there has been a number of lively discussions about the superiority or otherwise of vinyl. One of the most forthright supporters of vinyl is female and I deduce from her postings she has a substantial collection. However, I am not sure what the terms of reference are in this forum, I seem to recall one broadcaster saying anything less than 10,000 discs didn't count as a collection.

[verismissimo]

I seem to recall one broadcaster saying anything less than 10,000 discs didn't count as a collection.

That would be QUANTITY collectors, Biffo. I believe a genteel QUALITY collection would be around half that figure.

[Ferretfancy]

I don't entirely agree with umslopogaas that you can never find anything worthwhile in a charity shop. Two examples spring to mind in my recent experience, one was a mint condition LP box of Earl Wilde recordings originally made by Decca and RCA and issued by Reader's Digest. This included several concerto performances not readily available on CD. Another was a two disc recital by Emil Gilels issued on a subscription basis by Educational Media Associates with fine performances of Schumann, Brahms and Chopin. I'm not for one moment suggesting that these are of high collectible value, merely that you can still spot nice bargains if you are prepared to sift through the dross.

[Dave2002]

umslopogaas

It is indeed ALP 1086, and of course its contents are all on Testament CDs.
I didn't make a note of the Wittgenstein recording's number I'm afraid. If I pass the shop I'll check it out. My point really was that Oxfam really have no idea of what might be of interest, and what might not.

That aeems normal for these shops. We have a Debra shop nearby which used to have some good CDs. Typically they were 2 or 3 for a pound. Now they've put the prices up to £2, and they don't seem to realise that it's often possible to get brand new CDs these days for not much more, and sometimes less. They are, of course, on a shelf together with pop and other "music" by "artists" hardly anyone will have ever heard of or want to - IMO.

I did ufortunately let Walter's Schubert 9 LP slip away - it had gone when I went back for it. I don't normally buy LPs, but I do if there's no CD available. One day I may be able to play them again.

Re the Wittgenstein, why don't you just buy it?

[Ferretfancy]

That aeems normal for these shops. We have a Debra shop nearby which used to have some good CDs. Typically they were 2 or 3 for a pound. Now they've put the prices up to £2, and they don't seem to realise that it's often possible to get brand new CDs these days for not much more, and sometimes less. They are, of course, on a shelf together with pop and other "music" by "artists" hardly anyone will have ever heard of or want to - IMO.

I did ufortunately let Walter's Schubert 9 LP slip away - it had gone when I went back for it. I don't normally buy LPs, but I do if there's no CD available. One day I may be able to play them again.

Re the Wittgenstein, why don't you just buy it?

Dave 2002,

I did buy it, and very odd it is! Wittgenstein performs with the NY Metropolitan Opera Orchestra and Max Rudolph, and was allegedly recorded in the late fifties, Wittgenstein died in 1961.
There's a lot of guff about Super Stereo on the sleeve, but it's actually very boxy mono, and the piano dominates, with a hefty bass and a rather twangy top, a microphone under the lid effect.
The performance is very laboured, especially during the introductory part of the work, later on during the march section things improve. Wittgenstein said that he worked hard to strengthen his left thumb, and used this for melodic passages, and this is very apparent, but there are lots of fluffs, and the balance does not help.

All the same, I'm glad to have heard it, after all he was the dedicatee, but he is certainly not in the same league as Pletnev or Leon Fleischer

Perhaps umslopogaas might have a reference to this recording, I would say that it predates the release on this LP