Bartok Violin Concerto No 2 - a stunning discovery for me anyway

[HighlandDougie]

(Errr ... "'Tossy' Spivakovsky"?!)

AKA Nathan - not sure quite how he acquired the name "Tossy" but that's what he was certainly known as. Maybe it was his ability - and I'm straying into awful joke territory here - to, err, "toss off" notes. Anyway, see:

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=artistdetail&id=9301

[PJPJ]

Now, HighlandDougie was quite right, there is a sonic limitation - the Hungaroton is close and dry, rather 2-dimensional, with little atmosphere or presence of an acoustic; perhaps that comes out in multi-channel. But it doesn't obscure the character of the performance, maybe even emphasises it, and should offer nothing fierce in 2-channel to offend the ear in a well-balanced system. It almost reminds me of some early stereo from Mercury, or CBS in Severance hall, the focus closely on the performers, rather to the exclusion of the hall.

The timings find Kelemen quite close to the Menuhin/Dorati performance, which is a great one, but Kelemen finds a far greater range of mood and tonal colour, he's never afraid to attack the piece with a gypsy cut-and-thrust on the edge of his tone. Menuhin, like Stern with Haitink, tends to remain sweetly and beautifully himself - none the worse one might think, but wait till you hear Kelemen.

Go on, go and get it... I promise you, regret is not on the agenda.
JLW

I eventually listened to the Kelemen in surround and in stereo. The performance is superb, Kelemen's, Kocsis' and the orchestra's contributions, though K is a noticeably heavy breather. In stereo the soundstage is flattish with Kelemen way out in front. The five channel recording allows the orchestra much more depth but I found K still too spotlit. Telling my player that the centre channel was five foot further forward than it is produced a much better balance.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

not sure quite how he acquired the name "Tossy" but that's what he was certainly known as. Maybe it was his ability

That's his story and he's sticking to it!

[verismissimo]

Welcome Sator and thanks for re-awakening this interesting thread.

[Sator]

Thanks for the welcomes everyone. I've participated in internet music discussion on and off for well over ten years now. Mostly you see the same topics going around like a stuck record, but this is the first in depth discussion of recordings of the Bartók Violin Concerto I'd really come across - anywhere. That was good to see.

I eventually listened to the Kelemen in surround and in stereo. The performance is superb, Kelemen's, Kocsis' and the orchestra's contributions, though K is a noticeably heavy breather. In stereo the soundstage is flattish with Kelemen way out in front. The five channel recording allows the orchestra much more depth but I found K still too spotlit. Telling my player that the centre channel was five foot further forward than it is produced a much better balance.

I should really get the Kelemen and study the performance more carefully rather than relying on short excerpts. As for Ida Haendel, I've never been a really huge fan but am always willing to reconsider such things. I usually find her tempi a little too slow for my tastes, but she does bring a most attractive lyricism to this score judging by the excerpts on iTunes. The Gertler-Ancerl reading was an interesting suggestion too, though I might have to study it a bit more carefully, as it didn't really grip me on merely listening to the excerpts on iTunes. There was a time when I would have just brought all of them on CD but this is how I end up with thousands of CDs, some of which, after many years, I realise I have hardly listened too.

But for the moment I am hooked on the Ivry Gitlis reading.

[mikealdren]

Hi Sator,
The 'Oistrakh' is a fine performance (in awful sound) but most authorities doubt that it actually David Oistrakh and attribute it to Igor or Leonid Kogan. It's slightly surprising to me that no-one has checked with the conductor! Part of the justification is that there is no evidence of Oistrakh having ever played the work elsewhere.

Mike

[Ariosto]

Tossy was an unusual, as well as a very good player. His way of playing was unique and no other performer has ever done it the same way. He looked deformed when he played. But he had a rich sound especially in double stops. I heard him live when I was very young in the late 1950's at the RFH. I met him after his sunday afternoon recital and he signed my programme. I asked him to sign another for a friend and he did - preceeded with "To Frank!!"

I think he was a product of the Russian School of that period (1920's -1930's?) and had a unique style as did so many of the great players, such as Heifetz and Milstein, for example.

[PJPJ]

AKA Nathan - not sure quite how he acquired the name "Tossy" but that's what he was certainly known as. Maybe it was his ability - and I'm straying into awful joke territory here - to, err, "toss off" notes. Anyway, see:

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?f...detail&id=9301

Spivakovsky's late 1940s recording of Bartok's second sonata (not concerto) is available here at the moment for free download.

http://nealshistorical.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/bartok-violin-sonata-no-2-tossy-spivakovskyartur-balsam-chs/

I have mentioned this blog before; it's got many historical gems and may not be around for much longer.......

[Ariosto]

Spivakovsky's late 1940s recording of Bartok's second sonata (not concerto) is available here at the moment for free download.

http://nealshistorical.wordpress.com/2008/07/29/bartok-violin-sonata-no-2-tossy-spivakovskyartur-balsam-chs/

I have mentioned this blog before; it's got many historical gems and may not be around for much longer.......

I'm afraid it's not! File not found.

[Barbirollians]

Anyone heard Kelemen's other recording of the Bartok 2 on the Queen Elizabeth Competition box set ? I was rather tempted by such things as a Gidon Kremer Elgar concerto in that box and a recording of the Mendelssohn by Miriam Fried - another of those great violinists who is considered too old it seems . A BBC broadcast of the Brahms with her as the soloist when I was a student introduced me to one of my favourite pieces.

[John Shelton]

I have received but not yet unwrapped this intriguing set

Bartók Violin Concerto No. 2
Eötvös, Seven
Ligeti Violin Concerto

Patricia Kopatchinskaja, HR Sinfonieorchester, Ensemble Modern / Peter Eötvös (Naïve 2cds).

I'll report back (it may be a while though ).

[robk]

There is also Janine Jansen with Jurowski to contend with now. Anyone heard it. The Times liked it.

[robk]

There is also Janine Jansen with Jurowski to contend with now. Anyone heard it. The Times liked it.

Whoops sorry - thats Prokofiev

[HighlandDougie]

I have received but not yet unwrapped this intriguing set

Bartók Violin Concerto No. 2
Eötvös, Seven
Ligeti Violin Concerto

Patricia Kopatchinskaja, HR Sinfonieorchester, Ensemble Modern / Peter Eötvös (Naïve 2cds).

I'll report back (it may be a while though ).

I've come very late to this party but, inspired by the praise in 'Gramophone' and it being the 'Version Choisie' for the Bartok on France Musique, I've just acquired this 2 disc set. I have nothing against which to compare the Eotvös and only Frank-Peter Zimmerman/Saschko Gawriloff in the Ligeti but quite a few recordings of the Bartok (from Yehudi Menuhin in Dallas through to Isabelle Faust most recently). Maybe I've been partly seduced by the very fine recording but the playing is astonishingly assured - and very exciting. Thrilling stuff.

[Barbirollians]

I must overcome my antipathy to Kopatchinskaja from her self-regarding Beethoven disc . I didn't like that at all .