Brahms Piano Quartet N0 1 orch Schoenberg- BPO/Rattle

[Barbirollians]

Just given this much lauded CD a spin and can report it is immensely enjoyable and stunningly played .

[Don Petter]

I'm not normally a great fan of Rattle, but love the work (in both forms). How does he compare with Zender?

[Chris Newman]

I too love the work and went to Andrew Manze's Prom with the BBCScottishSO where it made a lot of new friends. Quite a lot of the audience around me in the arena expected to hear a real piano quartet but all were very happy with the big version. I bought Simon Rattle's CBSO version when it was an LP. I loved it and now have it on a generous double EMI Gemini set with John Barbirolli's lush Pelleas and Melisande, Barenboim's Verklarte Nacht(New Philharmonia) and Rattle's Chamber Symphony No 1 (BCMG). This version is also very fine played with lots of gypsy panache.

[Petrushka]

I have the BPO/Rattle disc among the large pile awaiting audition. After reading reviews think it needs moving to the top.

[Chris Newman]

I should think, knowing you, Petrushka, you will love the arrangement. I have yet to find anyone who finds it objectionable. Delightful, outrageous...Yes. It really is great fun (as is the original Brahms: it is possibly the cheeriest piece Johannes ever wrote!) Most of the Schoenberg is pure Brahms but imagine that Johannes had got his hands upon a xylophone, toyed with it and then let rip. The finale is like Dvorak after a few pints too much Budvar. If the new BPO version is a patch upon the CBSO version I am sure you will love Sir Simon Rattle here. At Andrew Manze's Prom the elderly couple from Midhurst next to me in the arena, who like me were staying at Imperial College me, expected the piano quartet. The gentleman asked me why Angela Hewitt's piano was disappearing. I explained that this was an arrangement by Schonberg. At first he looked gloomy then after the first movement he exclaimed quite loudly "Hey, Schonberg is better at orchestration than Brahms!"

[Petrushka]

I should think, knowing you, Petrushka, you will love the arrangement. I have yet to find anyone who finds it objectionable. Delightful, outrageous...Yes. It really is great fun (as is the original Brahms: it is possibly the cheeriest piece Johannes ever wrote!) Most of the Schoenberg is pure Brahms but imagine that Johannes had got his hands upon a xylophone, toyed with it and then let rip. The finale is like Dvorak after a few pints too much Budvar. If the new BPO version is a patch upon the CBSO version I am sure you will love Sir Simon Rattle here. At Andrew Manze's Prom the elderly couple from Midhurst next to me in the arena, who like me were staying at Imperial College me, expected the piano quartet. The gentleman asked me why Angela Hewitt's piano was disappearing. I explained that this was an arrangement by Schonberg. At first he looked gloomy then after the first movement he exclaimed quite loudly "Hey, Schonberg is better at orchestration than Brahms!"

A confession: I have never heard either Schoenberg's orchestration or the Brahms original so it will be entirely new to me.

[Serial_Apologist]

I should think, knowing you, Petrushka, you will love the arrangement. I have yet to find anyone who finds it objectionable. Delightful, outrageous...Yes. It really is great fun (as is the original Brahms: it is possibly the cheeriest piece Johannes ever wrote!) Most of the Schoenberg is pure Brahms but imagine that Johannes had got his hands upon a xylophone, toyed with it and then let rip. The finale is like Dvorak after a few pints too much Budvar. If the new BPO version is a patch upon the CBSO version I am sure you will love Sir Simon Rattle here. At Andrew Manze's Prom the elderly couple from Midhurst next to me in the arena, who like me were staying at Imperial College me, expected the piano quartet. The gentleman asked me why Angela Hewitt's piano was disappearing. I explained that this was an arrangement by Schonberg. At first he looked gloomy then after the first movement he exclaimed quite loudly "Hey, Schonberg is better at orchestration than Brahms!"

Well I agree about Schoenberg's superior orchestration skills! In this piece, however, Schoenberg seems to have tried to be faithful to Brahms's style of orchestration, but can't resist adding a gloss all his own. The xylophone-invaded last movement always makes me think of Shostakovitch, rather than Dvorak.

I strongly recommend getting hold of a recording of his re-compositions of concerti by Monn and Handel. Contrary to popular opinion, Schoenberg did have a sense of humour - the Serenade Op 23 and Pierrot Lunaire are full of it - but nowhere is that GSOH better manifest than in these three pieces.

S-A

[ostuni]

I strongly recommend getting hold of a recording of his re-compositions of concerti by Monn and Handel.
S-A

Yes, the Cello Concerto (after Monn) is outrageous fun! There's a good performance of it (Fred Sherry, cello, Philharmonia/Robert Craft) on a cheapo Naxos, where it's coupled with Craft & the Philharmonia giving a very decent performance of the Brahms Piano Quintet orchestration, and the (original) 5 Pieces for Orchestra.

[Roehre]

Well I agree about Schoenberg's superior orchestration skills! In this piece, however, Schoenberg seems to have tried to be faithful to Brahms's style of orchestration, but can't resist adding a gloss all his own. The xylophone-invaded last movement always makes me think of Shostakovitch, rather than Dvorak.

Schönberg's first aim was to "save" the (original) work from oblivion, and out of the hands of inadequate performers.

The orchestration was first and for all meant to clarify the structure of Brahms' work.
For obvious reasons the arrangement would be served by brahmsian features. But from the very beginning of working on the orchestration onwards Schönberg added specifically non-brahmsian elements, to avoid making it a kind of pseudo-Brahms orchestral work. Xylophone has been mentioned already, but the bass clarinet isn't a particularly brahmsian instrument either e.g.
Though Schönberg didn't want to create a "new" Brahms work in a kind of modern disguise, this arrangement nevertheless regularly is called "Brahms 5".

The other arrangements (Monn, Handel) or orchestrations (Bach) were not primarily arranged/orchestrated to recreate the original composers' music in modern colours, but to make them known to a wider public - allowing Schönberg to re-compose wide stretches of the Monn and Handel compositions e.g.
Neither the Brahms or the Bach orchestrations show any structural changes in the original composer's work, btw.

[ostuni]

Gavin Plumley's review, which I've just read, made me go over to Spotify to have a listen - and I completely agree with him, and Barbirollians. The playing is stunning: absolutely fabulous BPO sound. And it's good to hear the 1st Kammersymphonie in its lushly orchestrated version: I only really know the original version (which I see from my CD shelves also has Rattle, conducting the BCMG). Anyway, the new disc is now on its way from the river people...

[pastoralguy]

The playing of the Berlin Phil is simply astounding! What a band.

[Nick Armstrong]

The playing of the Berlin Phil is simply astounding! What a band.

Damn damn damn I've been fighting shy of getting this - I love the piece, and have SR's first go at it (the filler (!) to his Bournemouth Mahler 10 )... I've been telling myself ' in these straitened times you don't need a new one...'

But damn it, I have to have it! Heard a bit on the radio a week or two back, they sound to be doing incredible things with it.

[Bryn]

Yes, the Cello Concerto (after Monn) is outrageous fun! There's a good performance of it (Fred Sherry, cello, Philharmonia/Robert Craft) on a cheapo Naxos, where it's coupled with Craft & the Philharmonia giving a very decent performance of the Brahms Piano Quintet orchestration, and the (original) 5 Pieces for Orchestra.

The Schoenberg Cello Concerto after Monn was one of the very first items I ever recorded onto reel-to-reel from the Third Programme. I forget which orchestra and conductor were involved, but Aldo Parisot was the cellist. Great fun indeed.

[Chris Newman]

The Schoenberg Cello Concerto after Monn was one of the very first items I ever recorded onto reel-to-reel from the Third Programme. I forget which orchestra and conductor were involved, but Aldo Parisot was the cellist. Great fun indeed.

I have always thought the Schoenberg Cello Concerto after Monn would make a fine supplement or even good alternative to Rule Britannia at the Last Night of the Proms. The openings of the works sound so alike until the cellist comes crunching in. The first time I heard it I suspect it was as long ago as the Third Programme though I forget the perfomers.

[Serial_Apologist]

I have always thought the Schoenberg Cello Concerto after Monn would make a fine supplement or even good alternative to Rule Britannia at the Last Night of the Proms. The openings of the works sound so alike until the cellist comes crunching in. The first time I heard it I suspect it was as long ago as the Third Programme though I forget the perfomers.

Quite possibly the great Siegfried Palm on cello, Chris, if it was the same broadcast (ca 1970) but I can't now recall orchestra or conductor.