Gramophone at 100

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  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30316

    #46
    Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
    Those claims hardly deserved the well-argued and comprehensive refutation that JLW gave them on our behalf.
    Nevertheless, it should be possible to tolerate differing points of view. Nothing new about people perceiving things in very different ways.
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

    Comment

    • mikealdren
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 1201

      #47
      As others have pointed out, the magazine did go through a rough patch prior to the current editor with rather perfunctory reviews and I cancelled my subscription until things improved, I now enjoy my monthly read and it keeps me up to date with new releases.

      Comment

      • Mal
        Full Member
        • Dec 2016
        • 892

        #48
        Originally posted by mikealdren View Post
        As you say, the digital archive has scanned copied of all the magazines so it has everything but they are not searchable and since they no longer publish the index, you can't easily find things. As you say, the database is only from 1983 and I believe that it only contains reviews but it is digitised so you can search it. Rob's article would certainly appear in the archive but, I think, not in the database.
        Yes, that makes sense. I think I found the database search page and it does seem to work well - certainly it generates a lot of reviews! But I don't see Rob's article.

        Album reviews from the pages of Gramophone, the world's leading classical music magazine, from 1983 to today

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        • Master Jacques
          Full Member
          • Feb 2012
          • 1887

          #49
          Originally posted by gurnemanz View Post
          Those claims hardly deserved the well-argued and comprehensive refutation that JLW gave them on our behalf.
          I'm sorry to report that I have not read any "counter-claims" from "JLW"; so I'm unaware of any "comprehensive refutation" from them. Silence is probably my best response.

          Yet ... if quality of writing, precise description and informed judgment are the touchstone, then (assuming the March 2023 issue, which a colleague has passed on to me, is a fair example of the current standard) there has been a sad decline in overall quality. Not universally, of course there are exceptions, and it would be stupid to pretend otherwise; but there are simply not enough exceptions (for me) to justify the price tag.

          It's something of a miracle that the magazine is still alive at all. So there is surely nothing very contentious about the idea that Gramophone has descended from being a vital journal to a coffee-table, life-style accessory. It is graphics-heavy, and text-light. This descent simply mirrors what's happened in the realm of the performing (and other "high") arts, since the 1960s. I'm sure the editorial team do their best; but they can no longer afford to pay contributors properly, which is one reason why quality - as well as loyalty from an ever-reducing subscriber base - has inevitably suffered.

          I am sorry to rain on any celebratory parade, but pretending that all is rosy in the Gramophone garden does nobody any service. We can be grateful for what it was, more than what it has become.

          Comment

          • Lordgeous
            Full Member
            • Dec 2012
            • 831

            #50
            Hurwitz on Gramophone redaders etc,

            It's available online for anyone to see: Gramophone Magazine's 2020 media kit and advertising rates say a great deal about its readership on the one hand, an...

            Comment

            • jayne lee wilson
              Banned
              • Jul 2011
              • 10711

              #51
              Originally posted by mikealdren View Post
              As you say, the digital archive has scanned copied of all the magazines so it has everything but they are not searchable and since they no longer publish the index, you can't easily find things. As you say, the database is only from 1983 and I believe that it only contains reviews but it is digitised so you can search it. Rob's article would certainly appear in the archive but, I think, not in the database.
              Of course the digital archive is searchable and the search works well. I'm in there often several times a week, searching for reviews and Collection Articles and so on - which I usually find.

              Gramophone has been the world’s leading authority on classical music since 1923. Every issue will enrich your classical music knowledge with in-depth interviews and features about composers past and present, plus established and new artists from across the globe. Gramophone is the magazine for the classical collector, as well for the enthusiast starting a voyage of discovery.



              That is the page I see when I log on, with rows of monthly covers, as a subscriber on a MacBook. The search is at top right of the page. So you can indeed search for everything ever published in Gramophone there. (If you are not subscribed, use iOS or another tablet....YMMV...)
              Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 06-04-23, 19:34.

              Comment

              • jayne lee wilson
                Banned
                • Jul 2011
                • 10711

                #52
                Originally posted by Master Jacques View Post
                I'm sorry to report that I have not read any "counter-claims" from "JLW"; so I'm unaware of any "comprehensive refutation" from them. Silence is probably my best response.

                Yet ... if quality of writing, precise description and informed judgment are the touchstone, then (assuming the March 2023 issue, which a colleague has passed on to me, is a fair example of the current standard) there has been a sad decline in overall quality. Not universally, of course there are exceptions, and it would be stupid to pretend otherwise; but there are simply not enough exceptions (for me) to justify the price tag.

                It's something of a miracle that the magazine is still alive at all. So there is surely nothing very contentious about the idea that Gramophone has descended from being a vital journal to a coffee-table, life-style accessory. It is graphics-heavy, and text-light. This descent simply mirrors what's happened in the realm of the performing (and other "high") arts, since the 1960s. I'm sure the editorial team do their best; but they can no longer afford to pay contributors properly, which is one reason why quality - as well as loyalty from an ever-reducing subscriber base - has inevitably suffered.

                I am sorry to rain on any celebratory parade, but pretending that all is rosy in the Gramophone garden does nobody any service. We can be grateful for what it was, more than what it has become.
                YOU made the serious accusation of "uncritical lickspittle features" but you refuse to give any examples. So I can hardly offer a refutation.
                I already showed your claims that reviews are shorter now than before the millennium to be false (they are often longer, especially for a significant new release) All anyone has to do is examine issues from the 80s or 90s, when it had far less to cover anyway, to see the truth of this. You have to go much further back, to a time of many fewer monthly releases in the 50s - 70s, to see any difference in wordage, and even then not consistently.

                The magazine has survived, in print and online, precisely because it has changed - to meet all the new media demands of a rapidly changing digital landscape.

                There are still good, deeply knowledgeable writers like Gutman, Achenbach, Threasher, Quantrill (who also writes on Classical for HFN now) and Rob Cowan writing for Gramophone today, and very capable younger ones like the Brucknerian Christian Hoskins. Charlotte Gardner contributes notes to Qobuz as well as reviews for Gramophone. Yet you find all this evidence of a "sad decline"? OK - Pick out a review - the Bacewicz 3/4 Symphonies (3/2023, CH), say - and tell us what is wrong with it; show us how you would improve it.

                In other words - do the research before making the claims, or accusations; offer your proof.
                So we are all still waiting for you to give evidence. Why not direct us to one of your "lickspittle" features from March 2023?

                If silence is your "best response" - it is simply an admission of defeat.
                Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 06-04-23, 19:39.

                Comment

                • Alison
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 6459

                  #53
                  I still enjoy obtaining a new copy of Gramophone. The likes of EG, RL, IM, MEO, JBS, JC and JS haven’t been replaced but how could they be?! I could do without the Orchestra of the Year guff and Awards more generally.
                  Not keen on the reviewers of solo piano, Dave Fanning and Harriet Smith excepted.

                  Most of us struggle to recapture the puppy love of a certain time of our youth but, as others have written, the magazine ultimately enriches my mundane life.

                  Comment

                  • RichardB
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2021
                    • 2170

                    #54
                    Some people seem to have a problem not seeing criticism of something they like (for example the Gramophone) as a personal attack on themselves.

                    Comment

                    • Alison
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 6459

                      #55
                      I never see the point of falling out over an interesting but ultimately trivial topic such as we are discussing here.

                      Comment

                      • Ein Heldenleben
                        Full Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 6797

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Alison View Post
                        I never see the point of falling out over an interesting but ultimately trivial topic such as we are discussing here.
                        Agreed but it’s almost induced me to buy a copy to see what the fuss is about. An entirely pointless activity as I am banned from buying CD’s and indeed books save on the one in / one out principle.

                        Comment

                        • Alison
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 6459

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                          Agreed but it’s almost induced me to buy a copy to see what the fuss is about. An entirely pointless activity as I am banned from buying CD’s and indeed books save on the one in / one out principle.
                          Oh that must be hard!

                          Comment

                          • Bryn
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2007
                            • 24688

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Alison View Post
                            Oh that must be hard!
                            But what about hi-res downloads, and 'Kindle' for books?

                            Comment

                            • Ein Heldenleben
                              Full Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 6797

                              #59
                              Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                              But what about hi-res downloads, and 'Kindle' for books?
                              Yes indeed . I reckon I have approx 2,000 physical books plus 800 or so ebooks.

                              Comment

                              • Eine Alpensinfonie
                                Host
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 20570

                                #60
                                Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                                Agreed but it’s almost induced me to buy a copy to see what the fuss is about. An entirely pointless activity as I am banned from buying CD’s and indeed books save on the one in / one out principle.
                                That's inhuman.

                                Comment

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