Audio talk

[richardfinegold]

I've still got his Everest/WRC recordings of the Beethoven symphonies with the LSO and very agreeable they are too.

Not to divert this thread into a Krips appreciation fest, but those Everest recordings were made with film tape and have an exceptional dynamic range and have enjoyed a second life as audiophile reissue products. I have them on CD but when Amazon started selling mp3 downloads I bought the set for $5 and have had it on my phone ever since, so it’s my Beethoven Symphony listening when I travel.

[richardfinegold]

I seem to recall that Linn, like Hyperion, only make downloads available from their own site.

Perhaps now that is the case, but I downloaded several the Handel Concerto Grosso, among others, from HD Tracks, a few years ago.

[richardfinegold]

Andrew Rose has done one of his Pristine remastering jobs on these American Columbia recordings. Snippet at:

https://www.pristineclassical.com/co...oducts/pasc409

I played that recording when this BAL was announced. Pristine likes to introduce “Air” into their work, but it helps with dead acoustics

[Ein Heldenleben]

Not to divert this thread into a Krips appreciation fest, but those Everest recordings were made with film tape and have an exceptional dynamic range and have enjoyed a second life as audiophile reissue products. I have them on CD but when Amazon started selling mp3 downloads I bought the set for $5 and have had it on my phone ever since, so it’s my Beethoven Symphony listening when I travel.

When you say film tape do you mean perforated Sep mag ( separate magnetic tape ) as used in film editing and dubbing? Wonder why they went to the cost of using that - not to mention the recorder costs …?

[Bryn]

When you say film tape do you mean perforated Sep mag ( separate magnetic tape ) as used in film editing and dubbing? Wonder why they went to the cost of using that - not to mention the recorder costs …?

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/everests-original-35mm-tapes-used-cut-lps-first-time-0

[Ein Heldenleben]

https://www.analogplanet.com/content...s-first-time-0

Thanks- yes it’s sepmag and 35mm as well - respect. But rust is way cheaper than film. Most film sound would have been recorded on 1/4 inch maybe at only 7.5 Ips on location. Wonder why print through was less because if memory serves sepmag was thinner than Emitape - the standard Beeb fare. But its all gone down the tunnel of history.

[Bryn]

Thanks- yes it’s sepmag and 35mm as well - respect. But rust is way cheaper than film. Most film sound would have been recorded on 1/4 inch maybe at only 7.5 Ips on location. Wonder why print through was less because if memory serves sepmag was thinner than Emitape - the standard Beeb fare. But its all gone down the tunnel of history.

According to the page linked to below, the 35mm magnetic recordng tape used by Everest was thicker, not just wider, than quarter-inch recording tape, hence the lower print-through:

https://obsoletemedia.org/35mm-magnetic-film/

[smittims]

Mercury also used 35mm film for their recordings which have since become cult collectors' objects (Dorati, Frederick Fennell, etc.) . Coincidentally I was listening to an Everest recording this morning: Scheherazade; LSO/Goossens, which then migrated to World Record Club and even Hallmark (a Pye label I think) after Everest ceased operations.

[Ein Heldenleben]

According to the page linked to below, the 35mm magnetic recordng tape used by Everest was thicker, not just wider, than quarter-inch recording tape, hence the lower print-through:

https://obsoletemedia.org/35mm-magnetic-film/

Seems reasonable . I’ve only ever seen 16mm sepmag. Funny thing is in so many respects film sound is woefully inferior to studio sound but on this bit of the production operation it was seemingly superior partly out of the necessity to retain synchronicity with film.I’m now trying to work out whether 35mm sepmag at 24 fps is a faster tape speed than 15 ips of 1/4 inch. It’s certainly way more ferric oxide in width terms.
35mm x 24frames per sec = 840 MM per sec = 33 inches
Yep it appears to be twice as fast though not sure whether 35mm is square. .. I think its 24 MM in height and printed with the short side at the base - film editors always seemed to hold it vertically when staring at it.
Which makes it
24mm x 24 = 576 = 22 inches per sec i.e. 50 per cent faster than reel to reel..
So a better signal to noise ratio and with the sprockets helping with wow and flutter …what’s not to like.

[Bryn]

Seems reasonable . I’ve only ever seen 16mm sepmag. Funny thing is in so many respects film sound is woefully inferior to studio sound but on this bit of the production operation it was seemingly superior partly out of the necessity to retain synchronicity with film.I’m now trying to work out whether 35mm sepmag at 24 fps is a faster tape speed than 15 ips of 1/4 inch. It’s certainly way more ferric oxide in width terms.
35mm x 24frames per sec = 840 MM per sec = 33 inches
Yep it appears to be twice as fast though not sure whether 35mm is square. .. I think is 24 MM in height and printed with the short side at the base - film editors always seemed to hold it vertically when staring at it.
Which makes it
24mm x 24 = 576 = 22 inches per sec i.e. 50 per cent faster than reel to reel..

Did not most film audio get restricted to a strip of magnetic coating towards one edge of the visual frame-carrying sprocketed film?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Did not most film audio get restricted to a strip of magnetic coating towards one edge of the visual frame-carrying sprocketed film?

Yes - for distribution and screening and in extremis for editing . Just not practical to have separate reels and machines in 000’s of cinemas I guess . There were also optical sound track systems. It was pretty useless for creative purposes because of the difficulty of separating sound and pics. I don’t think it was ever used or indeed could be used during the filming process (except amateur ?) but the last 16 MM i worked with was in 1990 and I just don’t have the knowledge tbh.

[Bryn]

Yes - for distribution and screening and in extremis for editing . Just not practical to have separate reels and machines in 000’s of cinemas I guess . There were also optical sound track systems. It was pretty useless for creative purposes because of the difficulty of separating sound and pics. I don’t think it was ever used or indeed could be used during the filming process (except amateur ?) but the last 16 MM i worked with was in 1990 and I just don’t have the knowledge tbh.

There was also an optical audio recording method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_sound which Cage exploited. See, for instance. https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapte...pe-thom-holmes

[Ein Heldenleben]

There was also an optical audio recording method: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_sound which Cage exploited. See, for instance. https://www.taylorfrancis.com/chapte...pe-thom-holmes

Yes - in the early Al Jolson days I think it was disc recorded but I’m not sure whether distribution was optical or magnetic side printing. Optical recording had the potential to be pretty good I think.

[Ein Heldenleben]

For the sake of historical accuracy and with enormous apologies to lovers of the Paris symphony I’ve just remembered there was something called commag - film with a magnetic stripe . It was used a lot in news* and was a right pain if I remember correctly. Mind you so was film in general ….hours and hours of syncing up. The good old days weren’t always that…

* I think I used it once in an interview with Arthur Scargill in 1983 ….

[richardfinegold]

Mercury also used 35mm film for their recordings which have since become cult collectors' objects (Dorati, Frederick Fennell, etc.) . Coincidentally I was listening to an Everest recording this morning: Scheherazade; LSO/Goossens, which then migrated to World Record Club and even Hallmark (a Pye label I think) after Everest ceased operations.

I believe the Everest recordings were produced were Robert Fine, moonlighting from his job at Mercury. He then bought the equipment when Everest had a fire sale. I learned this from reading the booklet accompanying the DG reissues of William Steinberg/Pittsburgh of Beethoven and Brahms cycles, which were originally recorded by Fine for Everest