Five Essential Beethoven Recordings

[Mandryka]

If 'it needs to be emphasised...', richardb, I wonder why you didn't suggest any, and explain how. I know few Beethoven recordings from the 21st century, so I wouldn't be able to say which were the best. Certainly the performances I've heard on Radio 3 , while good, don't strike me as 'essential'.

If you like the 1950s Budapest Quartet recordings then let me suggest you try the Eybler Quartet op 18. Based on some recent research coming out of Manchester university, so they’re interesting from that point of view too. To me they make the op 18s sound like little Mozartian buffo operas!

[Mandryka]

The reason I haven't bothered hearing them is that they are based on an image of Beethoven and his music and how it sounds that I'm quite aware of and not really interested in. (The Busch Quartet is an exception here, but I prefer to hear the increased clarity and depth of more recent recordings, which plays quite an important role in my appreciation too, some might find that a superficial way to think but I would beg to differ. What I said was these are the Beethoven recordings I've been listening to most recently. I could easily have been listening to Furtwängler or whoever but my choice went in other directions. I don't subscribe to the conviction that the mid-20th century was a golden age for performance and recording of classical music.

Oh I think you should hear some of Furtwangler! And that concerto that someone mentioned with Edwin Fischer is a tremendous encounter of strong characters. In fact I think that there’s a huge amount of early Beethoven symphonic recordings which are rightly lauded to the skies by Beethovenphiles- not just some by Furtwangler but also some by Mengelberg and even the earliest Toscanini and Walter and my particular favourite, Pfitzner. There’s a real noble heroic quality about Pfitzner’s Eroica, and enormous poise in his Pastoral.

I’m maybe less positive about the Busch quartet than you, but I appreciate the quality of some early quartet recordings in Beethoven - most especially the Calvet quartet.

[Mario]

What an appalling, truly appalling thread this is!

Posters innocently perpetuate a ridiculous idea of “Best 5”, by innocently listing their own choices (their choice, but nothing harmful in that), then they are derided by others who come along, still others (being Senior Members of the Police Forum of course), consider people’s opinions (for that is all they are) “laughable”, Radio 3 (which I have confessed already on this Forum, I am very grateful for using for free living abroad as I do), continues to underpin my reasons for hardly ever finding anything worthwhile to listen to, pandering as it does to the lowest common denominator, and standing apart and aloof from all this chaos stands Beethoven, undefended and alone.

His music is so well-known (someone stated that at any given moment in time, a Beethoven symphony is being played somewhere in the world), to the extent that he has become a victim of his own success. Shall we attempt to get banned from the Forum?

IS THIS AGAIN THE BRITISH MALADY OF PRAISING SOMEONE TO THEN KNOCK THEM DOWN?

Beethoven is loved, so let us all hate him. Why not? Most of his music is “irredeemably horrid and bombastic barnstorming bluster”. Sad life some people lead.

(Same as the team I’ve supported since 1976, only beating Southampton because we “turned up dressed as lettuces”, but not a word on our stunning victory against Liverpool – gosh the ABUs must be quaking in their boots that Utd may be on their way back.)

It is only now that I understand the genius of Beethoven, having learnt after some thirty years of having first heard his 5th that one of the most affirmative, all-conquering, triumphant moments in all music (that’s the 4th movement of the 5th to you), is simply made up of the tonic, mediant and dominant on the C Maj scale – C E G.

What I would give to hear an hour’s talk on Radio 3 (paid for of course), by someone who is knowledgeable and unbiased (yes, I’m talking to you Mr Richard Barratt), start off with his First Symphony (that's LvB's not yours Mr B), and analyse why this is an important step in the symphonic repertoire (why are those opening chords so revolutionary? I’ve used what little knowledge I have in Music Theory, to no avail).

Instead, we have to make up our own silly little lists of favourite “bleeding chunks”, a wholly pointless exercise.

Pathetic!

Sir Andras Schiff is coming on soon – that sublime music is clearly and sorely needed.

[RichardB]

What an appalling, truly appalling thread this is!

Calm down, Mario. People may disagree about which Beethoven recordings to listen to, and some people don't appreciate Beethoven's music at all. Why should they not express their opinions on such matters, as long as they don't start throwing personal insults at each other?

[Ein Heldenleben]

If nothing else this thread has thrown up many listening suggestions - recordings I haven’t heard about . That’s a good thing isn’t ?
The criterion is “essential “ not best . I don’t find a jazz version of the Pathetique essential though the Fischer / Furtwangler Emperor does come into that category for me…

[richardfinegold]

Thank for Gary Graffman, richard. He was marketed as a heaven-storming titan of the keyboard, which did him no favours. I was plleasantly surprised to find what a sensitive and philosophical pianist he was.

His recording of Op. 110 and Op.111 were my introduction to late Beethoven and the Pianist. It might of have been his last recording. I agree with you, the Gary Graffman box released by Sony has a lot of sensitive playing within

[richardfinegold]

Surprised that no-one has an indispensable version of the Violin Concerto, then again, although I couldn't live without it, I'm not sure which is my absolute favourite. As Ms Lodes said, she really couldn't live with just single versions of such great works.

For me that is Oistrakh/Cluytens/French National Radio Orchestra. Matchless rendition of the Kreisler cadenzas. Suck/Boult for the Joachim cadenzas.
Unlike Mandyrka Beethoven has been my most essential Composer and my choice of 5 was spur of the moment-ish. I guess I was surprised at the lack of 21st Century recordings Iconsidered essential. I have played the Savall recordings quite a bit and as a whole it may be my most favorite cycle, with a relatively innocuous Pastorale being the outlier, but I just feel closer to the recordings that frequently introduced the music and spurred my enthusiasm

[richardfinegold]

Oh I think you should hear some of Furtwangler! And that concerto that someone mentioned with Edwin Fischer is a tremendous encounter of strong characters. In fact I think that there’s a huge amount of early Beethoven symphonic recordings which are rightly lauded to the skies by Beethovenphiles- not just some by Furtwangler but also some by Mengelberg and even the earliest Toscanini and Walter and my particular favourite, Pfitzner. There’s a real noble heroic quality about Pfitzner’s Eroica, and enormous poise in his Pastoral.

I’m maybe less positive about the Busch quartet than you, but I appreciate the quality of some early quartet recordings in Beethoven - most especially the Calvet quartet.

I am having difficulty squaring your enthusiasm for the recordings you cite with enthusiasm, with your earlier post about your general dislike of Beethoven

[Mario]

Calm down, Mario.

As ever, you’re right Richard!

Just finished listening to an extraordinary pianist playing extraordinary music.

Much calmer now.

I had thought about deleting my post, but it’s now public.

I’m sorry if I offended anyone – a sudden rush of blood I’m afraid.

Each to his/her own.

Best wishes to all.

[Mandryka]

I am having difficulty squaring your enthusiasm for the recordings you cite with enthusiasm with your earlier post about your general dislike of Beethoven

So do I

[Mandryka]

For me that is Oistrakh/Cluytens/French National Radio Orchestra.

For me Zehetmair/Brueggen.

[Nick Armstrong]

Natasha Loges’ third choice on RR this morning epitomises what is so wrong with Radio 3 - almost being ashamed of classical music and a desperate to be down with the kids.

I thought she was subtly mocking the idiocy of the exercise she was engaged in

[Bryn]

What an appalling, truly appalling thread this is!

Posters innocently perpetuate a ridiculous idea of “Best 5”, by innocently listing their own choices (their choice, but nothing harmful in that), then they are derided by others who come along, still others (being Senior Members of the Police Forum of course), consider people’s opinions (for that is all they are) “laughable”, Radio 3 (which I have confessed already on this Forum, I am very grateful for using for free living abroad as I do), continues to underpin my reasons for hardly ever finding anything worthwhile to listen to, pandering as it does to the lowest common denominator, and standing apart and aloof from all this chaos stands Beethoven, undefended and alone.

His music is so well-known (someone stated that at any given moment in time, a Beethoven symphony is being played somewhere in the world), to the extent that he has become a victim of his own success. Shall we attempt to get banned from the Forum?

IS THIS AGAIN THE BRITISH MALADY OF PRAISING SOMEONE TO THEN KNOCK THEM DOWN?

Beethoven is loved, so let us all hate him. Why not? Most of his music is “irredeemably horrid and bombastic barnstorming bluster”. Sad life some people lead.

(Same as the team I’ve supported since 1976, only beating Southampton because we “turned up dressed as lettuces”, but not a word on our stunning victory against Liverpool – gosh the ABUs must be quaking in their boots that Utd may be on their way back.)

It is only now that I understand the genius of Beethoven, having learnt after some thirty years of having first heard his 5th that one of the most affirmative, all-conquering, triumphant moments in all music (that’s the 4th movement of the 5th to you), is simply made up of the tonic, mediant and dominant on the C Maj scale – C E G.

What I would give to hear an hour’s talk on Radio 3 (paid for of course), by someone who is knowledgeable and unbiased (yes, I’m talking to you Mr Richard Barratt), start off with his First Symphony (that's LvB's not yours Mr B), and analyse why this is an important step in the symphonic repertoire (why are those opening chords so revolutionary? I’ve used what little knowledge I have in Music Theory, to no avail).

Instead, we have to make up our own silly little lists of favourite “bleeding chunks”, a wholly pointless exercise.

Pathetic!

Sir Andras Schiff is coming on soon – that sublime music is clearly and sorely needed.

Hi Mario,

First I would point out that I made no list of favoured recordings. I too think the whole thing ridiculous (i.e. laughable). However, when it comes to Beethoven's own metronome marks (and also those appended by others who knew his performances well, such as Czerny for the piano concertos). The suggestion that there was either a problem with the metronomes used for the markings or the ability of those reading them to get those reading right, I see as very much a case of clutching at straws. First, the detractors of the metronome marks have a view of what tempo they are happy with (something heavily conditioned by the 'tradition' which has developed since Wagner's approach) then they construct a theory to support their view, insulting both those who applied the markings and those who made and maintained the metronomes concerned, in the process. That approach, I contend, is laughable (ridiculous).

[Bryn]

For me Zehetmair/Brueggen.

That and the one with the even naughtier first movement cadenza played by Pat Kop (sometimes with overdubs, sometimes in duet with the leader). I love the CD recordings of both violinists. That's three in all, I think. That said, I consider none of them "essential". While we're at it, what is intended by "essential", here? Is it recordings one is encouraged to have to hand or those that get to the essence of what Beethoven was about?

[Mario]

Hi Mario,

First I would point out that I made no list of favoured recordings. I too think the whole thing ridiculous (i.e. laughable). However, when it comes to Beethoven's own metronome marks (and also those appended by others who knew his performances well, such as Czerny for the piano concerto). The suggestion that there was either a problem with the metronomes used for the markings or the ability of those reading them to get those reading right, I see as very much a case of clutching at straws. First, the detractors of the metronome marks have a view of what tempo they are happy with (something heavily conditioned by the 'tradition' which has developed since Wagner's approach) then they construct a theory to support their view, insulting both those who applied the markings and those who made and maintained the metronomes concerned, in the process. That approach, I contend, is laughable (ridiculous).

Bryn,

I made my apology in Post 39, and that obviously included you as well. My sadness for any upset I may have caused remains.

I may start a thread on metronome markings (why is it always LvB that is affected by these?).

At any rate, there are far, far more serious issues in the world currently (including a worrying game against Arsenal coming up), for us to disagree over certain (rather unimportant) issues.

But it’s never that clear-cut is it?

I know I’m jumping around within threads here, but Ein Heldenleben’s link in his post 6 on the Chinike! thread is making for valuable reading.

And as YOU of all people should know, I rely on the likes of you and others on this Forum for utterly invaluable input.

Again, best wishes.