Conducting Beethoven from the piano

[Dave2002]

Just had the misfortune to listen to the first movement of the Fifth on You Tube - sounds like the piano in a pub I used to go to in the 1980s .

Well David Hurwitz hates it - so it must be good!

https://youtu.be/uPyM57xG__M

"The sound of it has to be heard to be believed"

What I've heard so far is believable and lovely - does the Temple University kazoo choir actually exist? I doubt it.

Hurwitz does make a couple of good points, but over all his prejudices just come straight to the fore.

https://youtu.be/uPyM57xG__M

Currently sampling the 4th - sounds OK to me. The opening of the 2nd movement is a bit stark - but I'll give it time.

The last movement is sounding OK - really don't get the problem with this - but I'll wait until I hear the clarinets before the end.

https://youtu.be/tmxuAq7VO48

[Bryn]

I see Geoffrey Norris did not like these performances in Gramophone.

Big deal. I don't pay too much attention to what Norris has to say about historical performance practice. He's good on the modern piano, though.

Alternatively: http://www.classical.net/~music/recs.../alp00820a.php

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2014/Aug14/Beethoven_concertos_820.htm

Or, from Presto Classical:

Alpha proposes rediscovering the three discs of the complete recording made between 2004 and 2008 by Arthur Schoonderwoerd, conducting the Ensemble Cristofori from the keyboard.

These recordings had been widely hailed by the international press at the time of their release. Beyond that success, it was the singularity and profundity of Arthur Schoonderwoerd’s approach that convinced Alpha to assemble these discs in the same box, offered at an attractive price.

Since the dawn of sound recording, this great Beethoven cycle has motivated a large number of artists and given rise to memorable interpretations. No doubt that, thanks to its aesthetic coherence and the originality of the musical options retained, this reference on early instruments will convince even more widely than in its initial edition on separate discs.

[Dave2002]

I see Geoffrey Norris did not like these performances in Gramophone.

So that proves it then!

[MickyD]

'nuff sed.

Am I right in thinking that Alpha have misspelt this artist's name?

[jayne lee wilson]

Oh don’t start it all up again ( I agree)

A clear case of the (giggling) divided self....

I could offer much about this (musically, beyond mere recommendations).... but comments about pub pianos, in all their incurable (almost ideological) intransigence are (yet another) cue to leave the stage.

It never seems to occur to the reflexing early-piano-haters that there might just be something of interest going on at a musical, performative and interpretive level...

[Bryn]

Am I right in thinking that Alpha have misspelt this artist's name?

In that publicity image, yes, but not on the box I have, nor on the previously issued separate discs.

[jayne lee wilson]

No wonder Beethoven used to smash pianos if they sounded like that - for all the pianist’s evident skill I found it unbearable.

Reaching out beatifically, with renewed spiritual patience to those pathologically troubled, like Barbirollians, from fortepiano-frowns, I recommend a prolonged course of this....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-Journey-Piano-Concertos-Nos-1-5/dp/B07YTDY1BT/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3MA5RR8KIRAAJ&keywords=leif+ove+andsnes&qid=1643810540&s=music&sprefix=leif+%2Cpopular%2C78&sr=1-2

[Bryn]

Reaching out beatifically, with renewed spiritual patience to those pathologically troubled, like Barbirollians, from fortepiano-frowns, I recommend a prolonged course of this....

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-J...ar%2C78&sr=1-2

To be fair, it may not only be the sound of the instruments Beethoven wrote for that is found objectionable by some. The Schoonderwoerd/Cristofori recordings also used an iinstrumentarium of the proportions employed for the premieres of these concertos.

[Barbirollians]

I have retreated to Brautigam /Willens instead which demonstrates that a fortepiano does not need to sound like it is in a pub.

Interested by Andsnes.

[Barbirollians]

To be fair, it may not only be the sound of the instruments Beethoven wrote for that is found objectionable by some. The Schoonderwoerd/Cristofori recordings also used an iinstrumentarium of the proportions employed for the premieres of these concertos.

Seven strings ? Where is the source for that ?

[jayne lee wilson]

To be fair, it may not only be the sound of the instruments Beethoven wrote for that is found objectionable by some. The Schoonderwoerd/Cristofori recordings also used an iinstrumentarium of the proportions employed for the premieres of these concertos.

Yes - of which I am a huge fan and was "an early adopter". The Cristofori Mozart series too, which I have most of in hi-res downloads. They give you new ears for timeless music; make the Historical contemporary. One can ask no more. .

The MCO/Andsnes would be first choice here for modern instruments. But the far-reaching interpretive and performative effects are, for me, just as fascinating as instrumental vintages. Directing from the piano, in both the Andsnes and Schoonderwoerd, has unique pleasures and insights to offer.

[Bryn]

Seven strings ? Where is the source for that ?

Schoonderwoerd's programme notes based on evidence offered in Stefan Weinzirl's "Beethonens Konzerträume, Raumakusik und symphoniche Aufführungspraxis an der Schwelle zum modernen Konzertwesen" of 2002.

See https://cdn.outhere-music.com/outher...11-booklet.pdf

[Barbirollians]

One paper ? I am profoundly sceptical - the Eroica with two violins, two violas ...

[LHC]

To be fair, it may not only be the sound of the instruments Beethoven wrote for that is found objectionable by some. The Schoonderwoerd/Cristofori recordings also used an iinstrumentarium of the proportions employed for the premieres of these concertos.

Having just listened to the short extracts available on the Presto website (and before I knew anything else about the recording), it was the size of the orchestra and particularly the small complement of strings, that struck me immediately rather than the sound of the fortepiano. It is this rather than anything else that makes it sound completely different to any other recording I have heard; as Jayne would say, it makes us listen with new ears.

I must admit to being very tempted by the recording.

[Bryn]

One paper ? I am profoundly sceptical - the Eroica with two violins, two violas ...

Well, the book is printed on paper, I suppose: https://www.stretta-music.com/en/wei...nr-167254.html

See also: https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Stefan_Weinzierl_(Akustiker)

He was closely associated with the ReSound Beethoven Symphony series of recordings which have previously been the topic of discussions here.