Conducting Beethoven from the piano

[Barbirollians]

Is there a truly successful recorded cycle apart from the Cleveland/Ashkenazy where this has been done . To my ears neither Kovacevich or Barenboim come close to their collaborations with Davis and Klemperer and although there is much that is very lovely in Howard Shelley’s set on Chandon especially the Third the Fifth sounds underpowered and that even for someone as accomplished as Shelley it does not quite come off.

The Ashkenazy set ,however, I think is one of his peaks - rather forgotten now it seems.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It’s cheaper, but less thorough.

[Bryn]

'nuff sed.

[Parry1912]

The Ashkenazy set ,however, I think is one of his peaks - rather forgotten now it seems.

Not by me! It is excellent.

[Barbirollians]

'nuff sed.

Just had the misfortune to listen to the first movement of the Fifth on You Tube - sounds like the piano in a pub I used to go to in the 1980s .

[cloughie]

There is always the scaled down Piano and String Quintet versions led by Hanna Shybayeva.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Just had the misfortune to listen to the first movement of the Fifth on You Tube - sounds like the piano in a pub I used to go to in the 1980s .

Oh don’t start it all up again ( I agree)

[Barbirollians]

Oh don’t start it all up again ( I agree)

No wonder Beethoven used to smash pianos if they sounded like that - for all the pianist’s evident skill I found it unbearable.

[HighlandDougie]

The two recentish (well, in the last ten years, conductor-lite cycles with which I am familiar on record are Andsnes (with the Mahler CO) and Lisiecki (with the ASMF). The former is rather more successful than the latter but I miss the the conductor/soloist 'spark' which I get from Helmchen/Manze and from Minnar/de Vriend. I once saw Murray Perahia and the ASMF in two Mozart concertos and the Beethoven - from memory - 3rd. The Mozart went well but not the Beethoven. It all seemed too much for the poor man.

[Barbirollians]

Helmchen/Manze is indeed excellent . Notable that Zimerman having conducted 1 and 2 in his first cycle after Bernstein died had Rattle conduct all five in his recent set.

[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=Barbirollians;873974]No wonder Beethoven used to smash pianos if they sounded like that - for all the pianist’s evident skill I found it unbearable.[/

You are provoking the fortepiano lobby who are showing commendable restraint. However the pinging top notes on the opening tutti do make me less inclined to get the pinging notes on the Yamaha tuned. They sound relatively ok in comparison.

[Bryn]

Oh don’t start it all up again ( I agree)

Is that why you decided to continue this nonsense with your parenthetic concurrence?

[LHC]

The two recentish (well, in the last ten years, conductor-lite cycles with which I am familiar on record are Andsnes (with the Mahler CO) and Lisiecki (with the ASMF). The former is rather more successful than the latter but I miss the the conductor/soloist 'spark' which I get from Helmchen/Manze and from Minnar/de Vriend. I once saw Murray Perahia and the ASMF in two Mozart concertos and the Beethoven - from memory - 3rd. The Mozart went well but not the Beethoven. It all seemed too much for the poor man.

I was going to mention the Lisiecki recordings, which have recently been shown on SkyArts. Unlike some of the other cycles mentioned, it is pretty clear from the videos (and I think from some of the blurb released at the time), that Lisiecki doesn't actually conduct the performances from the keyboard, and that it is left to the ASMF leader (Tomo Keller I think) to lead and direct the orchestral contributions. Either way, I found the performances rather disappointing.

[Bryn]

Just had the misfortune to listen to the first movement of the Fifth on You Tube - sounds like the piano in a pub I used to go to in the 1980s .

Well, if you will make an acoustic judgement based on a heavily data-compressed Youtube source. As 'every schoolboy knows', low data rate lossy CODECs, a mere 96kbps AAC-LC in this case, considerably distort the sound of sounds with a fast attack and misrepresent the timbre. There again. simple prejudice could be the principal stumbling point here.

[Barbirollians]

Well, if you will make an acoustic judgement based on a heavily data-compressed Youtube source. As 'every schoolboy knows', low data rate lossy CODECs, a mere 96kbps AAC-LC in this case, considerably distort the sound of sounds with a fast attack and misrepresent the timbre. There again. simple prejudice could be the principal stumbling point here.

I see Geoffrey Norris did not like these performances in Gramophone.