Originally posted by RichardB
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Top speed and weird opening of RR 8.1.22
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Originally posted by Bryn View Postbearing in mind my past and continuing association with the Scratch Orchestra
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Originally posted by RichardB View PostI remember around the time of the 1984 performances of The Great Learning having a long conversation with Howard Skempton about how what we were doing related to what was done in Cardew's lifetime, in particular that the younger members of the ensemble (like me) seemed to be a lot more concerned about getting right what was in the score than had been the case originally. But of course for us the score was all we had to go on, whereas Howard (and yourself, etc.) had a different kind of experience, of course a much more deeply involved one. Being "historically informed" involves taking all of that into account and then drawing conclusions on what to do. The result (correct me if I'm wrong) was not a reproduction of what happened fifteen or so years previously, but something of its own time that drew on all possible information regarding the work and its context and history. Just like historically informed performance of Beethoven or anyone else.
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Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View PostThe moment of revelation for me was the Rifkind Bach B minor . I thought I’d hate it - but in fact I loved it and pretty much stopped listening to my previous much admired Jochum version. The idea of a “perfect” or greatest ever performance is nonsensical - one pulled to pieces in Horowitz’s book Understanding Toscanini. His Beethoven ...........
It wasn't that I hankered after the Archiv Richter I'd learnt the piece from on vinyl. I just find a recording and performance with a chorus - Harnoncourt, Suzuki, Gardiner, more to my liking - and maybe expectation.
Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post..... Toscanini . His Beethoven recordings were marketed as unsurpassable but there can never be such a thing. The ninth is almost performer proof. I went to an amateur performance where the choir really struggled (hardly surprising ) but their attempts to get to grips with it were surprisingly moving - one of the more memorable performances
I continually wondered why I felt short changed by the VPO Dream of Gerontius with Rattle. The only reason I could think of, was it all seemed like a walk in the park - no real engagement, no sense of struggle, or the piece being worthy of that engagement.
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Some years back there was a BBC competition for amateur orchestras across the UK and a London orchestra of amateurs and some pros won with a great performance of Beethoven 7 and I have often heard music performed by amateurs especially choral music where the sense of effort added to, not detracted from, the musical experience. Occasionally - less so since the enforced silence of the Pandemic - one hears pro performances, soloist and collective, that suggest routine and over-familiarity with the piece, inevitable I suppose where repertoire is repeated ad nauseum.
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Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View PostI really didn't appreciate the Rifkind. Fine in itself - if you want a voice to a part, go ahead, its just that I didn't. (Where's the contrast with the solo passages?).
It wasn't that I hankered after the Archiv Richter I'd learnt the piece from on vinyl. I just find a recording and performance with a chorus - Harnoncourt, Suzuki, Gardiner, more to my liking - and maybe expectation.
Interesting comment. My first encounter with my brother in law was his choir's performance of the Mass in B minor. It was quite affecting to see the effort being put in, it was by no means perfect but also the music came through - the greatness of the piece.
I continually wondered why I felt short changed by the VPO Dream of Gerontius with Rattle. The only reason I could think of, was it all seemed like a walk in the park - no real engagement, no sense of struggle, or the piece being worthy of that engagement.
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Originally posted by gradus View PostThe VPO in Elgar - difficult to think of a more ill-starred combination.
Eliot-Gardiner did Enigma / intro & Allegro / Sospiri / In the South with the VPO - not bad with a good orchestral sound, but is JEG a number one choice Elgarian?
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Originally posted by cloughie View PostGood to see you call it the VPO and not WP gradus!
Eliot-Gardiner did Enigma / intro & Allegro / Sospiri / In the South with the VPO - not bad with a good orchestral sound, but is JEG a number one choice Elgarian?
Rattle’s Dream of Gerontius with the VPO was very fine indeed as far as the orchestral playing.Last edited by Eine Alpensinfonie; 20-01-22, 23:48.
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Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View PostI think that’s the finest of all recordings of [l]In the South[/I].
Rattle’s Dream of Gerontius with the VPO was very fine indeed as far as the orchestral playing.
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Originally posted by Cockney Sparrow View Post(Where's the contrast with the solo passages?)
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Originally posted by gradus View PostWell I stand corrected. I had thought that they - the WP/VPO - were sniffy about Elgar, 'where are the other parts' when first seeing the Introduction and Allegro.
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Originally posted by Bryn View PostHeh, heh. I, though one of the older Scratchers, was largely in the former category. I recall arguing strongly against a suggestion that the drums in Paragraph 2 should be less forceful, the score instructing that the drumming should be strong throughout, for instance, and that, in Paragraph 7, the only pauses on vocal production should be when one is listening for a new pitch to adopt for the next word or phrase. During the repetitions of a given word or phrase, one should take in breath, sing out the word or phrase for the length of exhaling that breath, then breath in again, sing out, and so on.
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