Top speed and weird opening of RR 8.1.22

[Alison]

Some think they are too loud (including me and you) , others don’t. In the final analysis what does it matter ? Meanwhile in the real world…..…

Exactly Helders. Good thread though and sorry Jayne found it exhausting.

Any views on the CPE Bach/Hamelin anyone?

[gradus]

I still prefer Toscanini in 1930's sound simply because I love the performance. Different strokes etc... no pun intended.

[jayne lee wilson]

Exactly. It really doesn't have anything to do with sound reproduction equipment and I wonder why people here often get so hot under the collar about such matters. Anyway the fact is that no domestic system, no matter how exotic, is going to give you the amount of nuance that you can hear in a well designed and purpose built studio control room with the kind of professional gear you'll find in recording and broadcast studios, not just because of the gear but also how it's installed in a space conceived from the ground up for the most detailed possible listening perspective. And when it comes to how to listen to that detail, I've learned more about this from engineers than from anyone else!

Just one last point then....as I've often mentioned, the amps and speakers I use - ATC and Harbeth - are precisely what you find in recording and broadcast studios all over the world (in a carefully set-up room whose acoustic is an inherently sympathetic one).
Once I heard them (and tried other models (including the ATC Active 50s for nearly a month, which taught me more than anything else) from the same marques which I admired but didn't keep) I knew I would never want to use any other......

There's a deal of very helpful adjustability in the discplayers, DACs and software here too, very useful indeed for fair asessment. I realised long ago that this won't be domestically typical.

[hmvman]

Exactly Helders. Good thread though and sorry Jayne found it exhausting.

Any views on the CPE Bach/Hamelin anyone?

Yes, it's been an interesting read. I only started listening to the programme today and heard the 'offending items'.

I very much enjoyed the C.P.E Bach pieces from Hamelin and didn't object to the fast speeds at all - he made it sound effortless with a light touch. I also enjoyed the Telemann viola concerto excerpt which to my mind was just the right tempo and the sound was lovely and detailed. As for the Beethoven, I thought it was an exhilarating performance. I didn't find the timps over the top, though it was a revelation to hear them like that, and thought the balance pretty good, although I agree with Ein Heldenleben that the acoustic was a bit too reverberant and made the orchestral tone rather harsh to my ears.

FWIW I was listening from Sounds at 320kb/s via my iMac connected to a venerable Quad amplification setup through Audiomaster LS3/5A speakers (which I know tend to be a bit bass-light but I love them!)

[Braunschlag]

I had ATC speakers. Very good indeed but ‘shouty’ - even driven with the ATC amp:welding set. I was glad to part with them.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, it's been an interesting read. I only started listening to the programme today and heard the 'offending items'.

I very much enjoyed the C.P.E Bach pieces from Hamelin and didn't object to the fast speeds at all - he made it sound effortless with a light touch. I also enjoyed the Telemann viola concerto excerpt which to my mind was just the right tempo and the sound was lovely and detailed. As for the Beethoven, I thought it was an exhilarating performance. I didn't find the timps over the top, though it was a revelation to hear them like that, and thought the balance pretty good, although I agree with Ein Heldenleben that the acoustic was a bit too reverberant and made the orchestral tone rather harsh to my ears.

FWIW I was listening from Sounds at 320kb/s via my iMac connected to a venerable Quad amplification setup through Audiomaster LS3/5A speakers (which I know tend to be a bit bass-light but I love them!)

How is the Mac connected to the venerable Quad?

[Dave2002]

Exactly. It really doesn't have anything to do with sound reproduction equipment and I wonder why people here often get so hot under the collar about such matters. Anyway the fact is that no domestic system, no matter how exotic, is going to give you the amount of nuance that you can hear in a well designed and purpose built studio control room with the kind of professional gear you'll find in recording and broadcast studios, not just because of the gear but also how it's installed in a space conceived from the ground up for the most detailed possible listening perspective. And when it comes to how to listen to that detail, I've learned more about this from engineers than from anyone else!

What's wrong with comparing with live performances?

Except:
(1) Sometimes they are in relatively poor acoustic environments
(2) Remembering the impact whie comparing with recordings before or after is only an approximate memory feat
(3) Sometimes the performances are not up to the best of recorded performances - whether old or new, "hi" or low quality or not.

When they are good they blow almost all recorded sound out of the water.

[hmvman]

How is the Mac connected to the venerable Quad?

At present just from the headphone socket but I'm seriously considering getting a DAC.

When I listen to music on headphones from my MacBook Pro I use an interface as a DAC and the sound quality is much better than from the computer's headphone socket.

[RichardB]

What's wrong with comparing with live performances?

We aren't talking about live performances.

[Bryn]

We aren't talking about live performances.

But we are talking about recordings of live performances where Savall's Beethoven is concerned.

[Ein Heldenleben]

At present just from the headphone socket but I'm seriously considering getting a DAC.

When I listen to music on headphones from my MacBook Pro I use an interface as a DAC and the sound quality is much better than from the computer's headphone socket.

Yes I’m analogue out from my MacBook via headphone but use a dac on the iPad.

[Dave2002]

We aren't talking about live performances.

You may not be. However it is not completely unreasonable to compare impressions of recorded sounds with those which can be experienced in concert halls. There are problems, I’ll admit. One being that the dynamic range may be much wider in a concert hall, and that doesn’t necessarily transfer to home or studio listening. If we are considering sound quality the comparisons do make sense.

[RichardB]

You may not be.

We were actually taking about one particular recorded performance of a Beethoven symphony before the topic opened out to encompass the equipment used for listening to recorded music. Everyone knows listening to live music in a concert is a completely different thing, not only because it sounds different but also because it's a collective experience rather than a solitary one, because it also involves a visual stimulus which gives another perspective to hearing (since if you can see that someone is doing something it's much easier to hone in on the sound they're making), because it consists of an unrepeatable moment rather than a reproduction that you can put on whenever and as often as you wish, and no doubt other reasons too.

Regarding the other items on RR, I rather liked the Telemann, an impression confirmed by listening to the whole CD. The viola concerto in G has been recorded quite a number of times and I have at least four other recordings of it, but this one is quite special, with a beautiful-sounding viola, maybe a little too prominent balance wise. As for Hamelin's CPE Bach, for me the music of this composer more than any other demands to be played on the instruments it was conceived for, particularly those sonatas and rondos that go right up to the sonic and expressive limits of the 18th century piano, while on a "modern" instrument they fit nicely and tidily and their fire and originality are greatly reduced.

[jayne lee wilson]

We were actually taking about one particular recorded performance of a Beethoven symphony before the topic opened out to encompass the equipment used for listening to recorded music. Everyone knows listening to live music in a concert is a completely different thing, not only because it sounds different but also because it's a collective experience rather than a solitary one, because it also involves a visual stimulus which gives another perspective to hearing (since if you can see that someone is doing something it's much easier to hone in on the sound they're making), because it consists of an unrepeatable moment rather than a reproduction that you can put on whenever and as often as you wish, and no doubt other reasons too.

Regarding the other items on RR, I rather liked the Telemann, an impression confirmed by listening to the whole CD. The viola concerto in G has been recorded quite a number of times and I have at least four other recordings of it, but this one is quite special, with a beautiful-sounding viola, maybe a little too prominent balance wise. As for Hamelin's CPE Bach, for me the music of this composer more than any other demands to be played on the instruments it was conceived for, particularly those sonatas and rondos that go right up to the sonic and expressive limits of the 18th century piano, while on a "modern" instrument they fit nicely and tidily and their fire and originality are greatly reduced.

This why really good, tangible stereo imagery, in a palpable acoustic, makes such a difference. Why, inter alia, some us pursued it so far. Far more than a merely hifi quality, that miraculous paradox of "watching" an "invisible performance" in three dimensions puts one in touch with the human presence - what they are making, individually, with, or out of, the music.

Of course it is not the same as live attendance (not that this was unambiguously positive, even when I could get there). But seeing the invisible before you does great things for your imagination and your perception.

***
Yes, the Telemann Album is wonderful. So glad the AAMB returned to him, after their various adventures in Bach, Beethoven and CPE....
The AAMB inspired my love for Telemann, and Telemann inspired my Love for the AAMB....

[Bryn]