Top speed and weird opening of RR 8.1.22

[ardcarp]

I'm glad I stayed with Record Review this morning because I thought Marina Frolova-Walker's review of Prokoviev 5 was well-considered.* However, I had nearly turned the programme off, or more likely thrown something heavy at the radio. CPE Bach's Solfeggio was played at lightning speed and with no subtlety. Telemann's Viola Concerto was likewise on steroids. Then something which, with some difficulty I identified as Beethoven 7 happened. What a filthy row, And who let loose that extrovert with the timp- sticks? I have, up to now, been quite a fan of Jordi Savall, but is he loosing his mind???

* Surprised, as were some others, that she like Karajan so much. I was happy with Litton/Bergen though.

[Bryn]

I'm glad I stayed with Record Review this morning because I thought Marina Frolova-Walker's review of Prokoviev 5 was well-considered.* However, I had nearly turned the programme off, or more likely thrown something heavy at the radio. CPE Bach's Solfeggio was played at lightning speed and with no subtlety. Telemann's Viola Concerto was likewise on steroids. Then something which, with some difficulty I identified as Beethoven 7 happened. What a filthy row, And who let loose that extrovert with the timp- sticks? I have, up to now, been quite a fan of Jordi Savall, but is he loosing his mind???

* Surprised, as were some others, that she like Karajan so much. I was happy with Litton/Bergen though.

:
I missed the opening section of RR. Looks like I will have to catch up. Savall has surely always let his mind run free.

[Frances_iom]

I switched on the kitchen radio (small FM set) and caught the tail end of the Bach - I thought my radio was playing up as sounded highly resonant and very tinny (and unpleasant) as well as played at breakneck speed - switched off just after the announcement.

[jayne lee wilson]

Was it this Telemann?
Been playing it in 24/96 on repeat, utterly gorgeous....





Georg Philipp Telemann: Viola Concertos - Overtures - Fantasias

Antoine Tamestit, Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin, Sabine Fehlandt, Bernhard Forck

• Released on 07/01/2022 by harmonia mundi
• QOBUZ 24/96
• (We've seen this violinist photo-trope before haven't we? )

*****

Wow - thanks for the ref to the Savall Beethoven! Didn't even know this was out yet, thought the earlier set of 1-5 was an instant classic (much replayed and relished here), just ordered this new 6-9 (on SACD ) immediately......

And it'll be here tomorrow! What a treat....

[RichardB]

The Telemann sounded very attractive indeed, I shall be listening to that later on. Also, Savall's Beethoven 7 made me prick up my ears and I look forward very much to investigating further. I haven't previously thought that his Beethoven recordings would be for me, not having heard any of them, but this started to change my mind. Especially the timpani at the start! Your mileage may vary.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Then something which, with some difficulty I identified as Beethoven 7 happened. What a filthy row, And who let loose that extrovert with the timp- sticks? I have, up to now, been quite a fan of Jordi Savall, but is he loosing his mind???

This was my reaction at first, but I persevered, and found the performance rather satisfying in the end. But I agree about the timpani sound. It reminded me of the muskets being fired in another Beethoven work of that period. This is one reason I'm ambivalent about the HIPP culture. Some instruments had reached a very acceptable standard in the early 19th century. Others (especially the piano - use whatever terminology you wish) were still very much in development.

I'm just going upstairs to change into my suit of armour.

[RichardB]

Others (especially the piano - use whatever terminology you wish) were still very much in development.

Yes but all instruments are always very much in development! (even pianos, as we see from Chris Maene's excellent recent creations)

[cloughie]

I'm glad I stayed with Record Review this morning because I thought Marina Frolova-Walker's review of Prokoviev 5 was well-considered.* However, I had nearly turned the programme off, or more likely thrown something heavy at the radio. CPE Bach's Solfeggio was played at lightning speed and with no subtlety. Telemann's Viola Concerto was likewise on steroids. Then something which, with some difficulty I identified as Beethoven 7 happened. What a filthy row, And who let loose that extrovert with the timp- sticks? I have, up to now, been quite a fan of Jordi Savall, but is he loosing his mind???

* Surprised, as were some others, that she like Karajan so much. I was happy with Litton/Bergen though.

I thought it was just me and my dislike of the over-hipped - wasn’t it just dreadful - those overplayed mic spotlighted timps were indescribable!

[Bryn]

I thought it was just me and my dislike of the over-hipped - wasn’t it just dreadful - those overplayed mic spotlighted timps were indescribable!

Yes. it is just so wrong to try and get close to how it might have sounded in the mind of the composer, given the composer's awareness of instrumental technology and playing techniques of the era in which the composition occurred. Far better to ignore such issues a just play it however one likes, as if some ALW clone had composed it. What would the composer know, anyway?

Oh, and the timps were played with hard beaters, rather than "overplayed", whatever that might mean.

The "Music played" listing is off beam. How would the 7th symphony be found in "Beethoven : Symphonies 1 - 5. Alia Vox. 4."

The 3 SACD set (Symphonies 6 - 9) duly ordered. Should arrive Monday.

[ardcarp]

mic spotlighted timps

Now you mention it, that was at least part of the trouble. Surely if heard in person at a concert venue (hall or church) they wouldn't have had that 'obliterating everything else' effect? However, we cannot really blame the engineers. Jordi S. must have approved the resulting recording?

[RichardB]

Now you mention it, that was at least part of the trouble. Surely if heard in person at a concert venue (hall or church) they wouldn't have had that 'obliterating everything else' effect? However, we cannot really blame the engineers. Jordi S. must have approved the resulting recording?

I will have to listen again when I have the chance, but my impression was that they weren't "mic spotlighted", just played with hard-headed beaters and with some gusto. It certainly made me sit up and take notice. Why not? And let's not also forget the fact that concert halls in which Beethoven normally expected to hear his music were much smaller than present day ones.

[jayne lee wilson]

Now you mention it, that was at least part of the trouble. Surely if heard in person at a concert venue (hall or church) they wouldn't have had that 'obliterating everything else' effect? However, we cannot really blame the engineers. Jordi S. must have approved the resulting recording?

I would go in fear of judging balances via 320kbps lossy resolution, and over a webcast too (with various potential variables...), especially if you then ascribe such choices to the performers themselves.........

I'm often surprised, even somewhat disappointed, when I hear a BaL or RR excerpt of a CD or HiRes download I know well. You cannot rely on it to be an accurate representation. Sometimes it will be a fair impression, sometimes not. Just a sad fact of life I'm afraid.

The Tamestit Telemann TWV51:G9 Concerto is playing again off Qobuz now.... whether in largo or allegro, it doesn't seem remotely rushed to me here, at 24/96....

A notably smooth, mellow tonal balance...
How lovely it is!

[Bryn]

I would go in fear of judging balances via 320kbps lossy resolution, and over a webcast too (with various potential variables...), especially if you then ascribe such choices to the performers themselves.........

I'm often surprised, even somewhat disappointed, when I hear a BaL or RR excerpt of a CD or HiRes download I know well. You cannot rely on it to be an accurate representation. Sometimes it will be a fair impression, sometimes not. Just a sad fact of life I'm afraid.

jlw, if, as I suspect, you have Savall's 4th to hand, I think that shows very well the range of attack employed by Le Concert des nation's timpanist. Hard-headed beaters and ranging from pianissimo to forte-fortissimo, as required. It's not an issue of microphone placement or level enhancement.

[cloughie]

I would go in fear of judging balances via 320kbps lossy resolution, and over a webcast too (with various potential variables...), especially if you then ascribe such choices to the performers themselves.........

I'm often surprised, even somewhat disappointed, when I hear a BaL or RR excerpt of a CD or HiRes download I know well. You cannot rely on it to be an accurate representation. Sometimes it will be a fair impression, sometimes not. Just a sad fact of life I'm afraid.

I’m not sure that whatever the sound quality of a radio broadcast that there can be any argument about the speed and style of delivery and the over enthusiastic timps - love ‘em - I’m sure you will Jayne or hate ‘em!

[Bryn]

I’m not sure that whatever the sound quality of a radio broadcast that there can be any argument about the speed and style of delivery and the over enthusiastic timps - love ‘em - I’m sure you will Jayne or hate ‘em!

Nothing "over" enthusiastic. Just playing as written. Fortissimo in bars 1 and 3, then sforzando on the second beat of bars 3, 4 5 etc. It's the hard heads, rather than the so inappropriately employed soft beaters of today, that makes the difference.