Ok - I admit it - I need help with downloading!

[Lordgeous]

I am ashamed to say that I am only 62 years of age and totally bewildered by all of this. I daresay that if I had someone by my side to demonstrate it all, I might become interested, but if I am truthful, I think I just don't have the patience! My loss, of course.

Phew, glad someone said that! I'm 16 years older - and a semi-retired audio engineer/prodcer - and apart from the storage problem CDs still suit me fine. And I do like having the physical object, old fashioned though it may be. My younger ears did appreciate the developent of audio over those years, the transition to digital and subleties of some of the phenomally expensive, esoteric Hi-fi creations. A couple of thoughts though... I wonder what some of you would think when, say, comparing the differences in hifi cables if you saw the tortuous, long distance journey an audio signal often has to go through from microphone to Master in an average studio!

In the early 80s I was producing/engineering an album for a famous 'top end' popular arist. It was the early days of digital so, being loaned equipment from Sony, we mixed the tracks to Digital, Analogue tape and (for fun) to Cassette (using metal tape). On auditioning, in blind tests, we were suprised that it was extremely difficult to tell the difference between them!!! Most listeners guessed wrong! The album is still highly regarded and considered by some to be a classic. I'm not 100% sure now but I think the vinyl was cut from the analogue master and the CD from the Digital!

[Dave2002]

Maybe I am missing something here but what is wrong with using a small second-hand laptop or mini-PC, and USB-fed external DAC? There are many such laptops available for around £100 if you don't have an old but still serviceable one sitting in a cupboard.

You clearly don't know about WAF.

[Bryn]

You clearly don't know about WAF.

What is the particular relevance of a web application firewall to this situation?

[Dave2002]

What is the particular relevance of a web application firewall to this situation?

You got the wrong acronym. Try another lookup.

[Bryn]

You got the wrong acronym. Try another lookup.

Clearly too esoteric for https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/WAF

[Cockney Sparrow]

Clearly too esoteric for https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/WAF

Its in there – but for those coming to this thread, its Wife Acceptance Factor. For those who haven't got a dedicated listening room and haven't experienced a partner with "views" on how the living room should look this is an acronym much used by audio enthusiasts. Mind you, if I had ever had a collection of boxes and leads that some have, I would have had to build a dedicated room....

Phew, glad someone said that! I'm 16 years older - and a semi-retired audio engineer/prodcer - and apart from the storage problem CDs still suit me fine. And I do like having the physical object, old fashioned though it may be. My younger ears did appreciate the developent of audio over those years, the transition to digital and subleties of some of the phenomally expensive, esoteric Hi-fi creations.

I can agree with all of that - I have so many CDs I don't envy my family when the inevitable happens, and the thought of doing the decent thing and downsizing at a suitable time beforehand fills me with dread. Downloads seemed highly relevant for music I wouldn't buy in CD form (complete H Brian Symphonies) and for example Hyperion (the principal label that comes to mind) which withholds its catalogue from streaming services. In the past there have been advantageous special offers at lossless quality, less numerous nowadays but they still crop up - for example at Presto and probably Qobuz, etc. So I have a lot of Downloads as well, and yes I could hookup a laptop, or I could do the same as I do with the streaming service and control it from my mobile, tablet, etc. Which was partly the subject of the thread.

A couple of thoughts though... I wonder what some of you would think when, say, comparing the differences in hifi cables if you saw the tortuous, long distance journey an audio signal often has to go through from microphone to Master in an average studio!

I'm with you there, I stopped reading Audio magazines over 10 years ago, and haven't been up for acquisitions ("box swapping") for a long time. I've never been tempted by special leads or power components. My disc player is connected by optical (as is the Chromecast), my speakers incorporate a DAC and being active, amplifiers. With radio over the internet I don't need a tuner and I have a record deck, (and cassette deck) packed away but I should really dispose of the latter. Even so, WAF wise, Mrs CS would prefer if I only had ceiling speakers but having had them in the kitchen I would strongly advise against............

In the early 80s I was producing/engineering an album for a famous 'top end' popular arist. It was the early days of digital so, being loaned equipment from Sony, we mixed the tracks to Digital, Analogue tape and (for fun) to Cassette (using metal tape). On auditioning, in blind tests, we were suprised that it was extremely difficult to tell the difference between them!!! Most listeners guessed wrong! The album is still highly regarded and considered by some to be a classic. I'm not 100% sure now but I think the vinyl was cut from the analuge master and the CD from the Digital!

The beliefs I subscribe to are that there are two main factors where reproduction can be flawed - getting faithful sound, or the sound the listener wants from a speaker is a difficult thing to achieve (I understand). And the other is the quality of the original recording - its possible to come across recordings as far back as the 78 era which sound wonderful, and recordings much more recently which sound pretty poor. (I realise I've omitted amending the listening room acoustic characteristics - cf WAF).
I say belief, because there has been conflict between audio enthusiasts over leads, power supply and much more - and also over Hi-Res as opposed to ordinary lossless. Debate rages, resentment clearly present – not on this forum - but an individual's hearing, expectations and preferences are also at play. My preferences are limited to CD quality, minimum components (Boxes, leads) and a domestic agreement about the CD player and speakers in the living room (and one other room). I’ve had a hearing test and, not having reached 70 I’m glad to find that I’ve only got a small falling off in response to the highest frequencies, although my hearing can only deteriorate further with time.

For downloads and streaming (Spotify, Idagio, Qobuz) all in one, a reliable consumer system and minimal fuss and bother, I can see why people pay for the Sonos system – I may end up doing the same.

[mikealdren]

Over the years, I've upgraded my system gradually and only when:
a. I can hear a clear difference.
b. I prefer the newer components.

Cables only once came into the frame so I changed from 'bell wire' interconnects to reasonable quality at which point they all sounded the same and, of course, bits are bits so optical cables do sound the same unless they are faulty.

[Dave2002]

I’ve had a hearing test and, not having reached 70 I’m glad to find that I’ve only got a small falling off in response to the highest frequencies, although my hearing can only deteriorate further with time.

I expect that these things may be inevitable, but so far I still enjoy listening without needing hearing aids or other aids. I intend to keep things that way as long as possible - though some of my friends - including several younger ones - have not been so lucky.
I've already gone beyond the milestone marker you mention.

You can do a simple enough test with audacity. No need for trusting people who want to sell you "aids".

Go into Audacity.

Select Generate->Chirp

Set the time to 30 seconds, the lower frequency to 20 Hz, the higher freqency to 20 kHz.

You will see a wedge shaped triangle tapering to the right.

Do not listen with headphones as you might not be able to cope with the volume levels.

Indeed even with loudspeakers you should set the levels low.

Then play - and watch the screen as you do. Initially you probably won't hear anything. That's going to be a combination of your hearing, and the room you're in, plus your speakers.
Gradually the sound will emerge and will become higher pitched, eventually becoming a high pitched whistle. If the cursor gets more than half way across the display and you can still hear it your hearing is probably OK.

If you think that's not good enough, then book a hearing test with a good audiologist. I have in the past known people who could not hear the top notes of a violin, so cadenzas in Brahms' or Beethoven's violin concertos just faded into silence.
I think if you enjoy music and haven't got any obvious serious problems it's not a good idea to worry about these things too much.

I would recommend being sparing with the use of headphones, or turning up the volume too loud on speakers during general listening.

I get wax in my ears periodically and quickly, which deadens the sound, but I can still hear quite high pitched whistles. There are cases of people who have had treatment for hearing loss - and one wrote a book. Bella Bathurst - Sound - in which she describes how she did recover some hearing and was able to discard hearing aids. So yes - there probably are some very good hearing specialists who can prescribe treatments and aids - but my conservative (!!) nature suggests not going to "ordinary" outlets or buying gadgets mail order. If you have a serious problem get good professional help.

[gurnemanz]

On the above, when living at home as a young man I was starting to get into Lieder and opera (mainly Wagner). I experienced instances of a related phenomenon, the MAF factor, when my mother would sometimes enter the room, enquiring "What's the matter with that female?" Can we put her out of her misery?" Fair enough, it was their house.

[Lordgeous]

My last hearing test showed a falling off of high frequencies, as expected at 77. There is one advantage: I'm no longer bothered by tape hiss on older recordings!

[Bryn]

On the above, when living at home as a young man I was starting to get into Lieder and opera (mainly Wagner). I experienced instances of a related phenomenon, the MAF factor, when my mother would sometimes enter the room, enquiring "What's the matter with that female?" Can we put her out of her misery?" Fair enough, it was their house.

Heh, heh. I recall the response of my mother to my listening to Alice Howland's rendition of Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire: "Turn off the caterwauling female!".

[jayne lee wilson]

HiFiNews Magazine long since abandoned "WAF" for the sexism it obviously was and is, always using he/she for listener reference, as they have had female audiophiles writing to them for any number of years now. Not to mention hifi designers or vinyl enthusiasts....

Of course, even those hetro partners drawn into such dated conflicts were both victims of such stereotypes. I guess PAF might work in some contexts, but with miniaturisation and smartphone/tablet based listening, this may be a less frequent conflict now. Unless one is drawn to larger speakers....

*****
Don't get me started on cables and power conditioners/regenerators, on which I have spent much time, energy and listening.
Differences between various designs are real and audible enough (I audition everything on a home trial/SOR basis), but will always be dependent on the ability of the equipment to reveal such differences, and the genetic differences of the human ear at its various stages of ageing to perceive them as significant or not. The effectiveness of Power cables/conditioners/regenerators will of course depend on whether they are chosen carefully, to deal with the local mains problem; in some contexts the improvement can be very noticeable, especially through Winter Evenings in heavily-populated areas.

I run Qobuz/Audirvana off a modifed Macbook, with the Kimber USB cable running through AQ Jitterbugs at the output end, and the Uptone USB Regenerator at the DAC input, and very effective this is in raising the resolution/dynamics etc closer to the level I can achieve off of CD/SACD.

Filter/Upsampling choices within a transport/player/dac can also be very beneficial, not to mention fun to try out.
My current No.1 go-to for CD replay is.....DSD Conversion (played through Kimber Carbon Interconnects).... that exhilarating feeling of having a whole new record collection to explore...

[Dave2002]

I apologise for using an abbreviation which is clearly now not PC - and outdated. Nevertheless in my particular circumstances - giving information away here - WAF is appropriate.

[Sir Velo]

............does that mean wired connection to the hi-fi, then?
.

Sure. But overall you need fewer cables as the CD player, DVD player, BluRay, Tape deck and other such components are made redundant by the PC acting as streamer and download library manager. You never know WAF/PAF might prefer the set up.

[MickyD]

I apologise for using an abbreviation which is clearly now not PC - and outdated. Nevertheless in my particular circumstances - giving information away here - WAF is appropriate.

Let me invent another one for minorities, BAF...Boyfriend Acceptance Factor...I recently solved the problem with the purchase of my Sony noiseless headphones, the best thing I've ever bought. This afternoon he was watching a hellish crash-bang action film, whilst I was immersed in the glories of the service from King's - both of us happy and a harmonious Christmas assured!