Ok - I admit it - I need help with downloading!

[Bryn]

I have no experience of using one of these but they look light the right sort of thing for the job: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nobsound-Co...4456379&sr=8-4

[Dave2002]

I believe it's called a USB port.

You're just confusing the issue here.

Sorry about that. Indeed a cable splitting to phono outs will do the job, as will Bluetooth - but if quality is going to be a major concern then some other options might be considered, and might provide a greater foot tapping bounce and experience than the cheapest solution.

Mostly I'm not too bothered, but I definitely can tell the difference when I listen to music on a better system.

Brn's suggested interface device will probably help some PC users who want to use an external DAC, though some DACs might be able to work directly with USB without that intermediate device.

[jayne lee wilson]

Most DACS on the market include USB inputs now (alongside optical, coax, IES/EBU etc) - they'd be disadvantaged competitively if they didn't. Designers make sure they sound as good as those others too, which wasn't always the case before the dramatic rise of Computer Audio.
The point about mini-dacs like Audioquest Dragonfly or the iFi range is to offer an easily-accommodated USB-only converter precisely to improve the Computer Audio. Then they connect to the amp usually with coax from their output. Macbook > USB converter > coax cable > amp.

The most recent AQ models feature the very advanced ESS Converter chips, previously only seen in much higher-priced gear, but as always they are filtering down to budget esoterica like the AQ now. Like most good designs since about 2012, these mini-DACs offer asynchronous USB, sonically and technically superior as it puts the DAC (rather than the computer) in charge of Data Transfer.

Having said all that, they really are plug n' play..... just get one and have a go (but audiophile as I am, I would also say: add in the AQ Jitterbug for the best results ....plug 'em all in...up and running in minutes with sweet, sweet music.......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=audio+quest+dragonfly+jitterbug+fmj&ref=nb_sb_noss

[Bryn]

Sorry about that. Indeed a cable splitting to phono outs will do the job, as will Bluetooth - but if quality is going to be a major concern then some other options might be considered, and might provide a greater foot tapping bounce and experience than the cheapest solution.

Mostly I'm not too bothered, but I definitely can tell the difference when I listen to music on a better system.

Brn's suggested interface device will probably help some PC users who want to use an external DAC, though some DACs might be able to work directly with USB without that intermediate device.

The device I linked to might be handy if the amplifier it feeds has a Toslink or S/PDIF input. A USB DAC would have no need for it.

[Dave2002]

The device I lined to might be handy if the amplifier it feeds has a Toslink or S/PDIF input. A USB DAC would have no need for it.

I tend not to think of amplifiers having a Toslink or S/PDIF input - but of course I guess some nowadays do have digital as well as analogue inputs. Not all DACs use USB, and some do Toslink etc. as well as USB, but the Toslink might be different - for example greater bit depth etc.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I believe it's called a USB port.

Even if a computer does have a digital audio output you would need a stereo system with the right kind of input in order to make use of it. You're just confusing the issue here. As others have pointed out, PG can start off with just a cable from his headphone output to any input on his stereo system, and eventually if desired go from there to using a DAC, that's all that needs to be said really.

Yep you can spend anything from £10 ( mini jack to phone cable ) , add a cheap Dac ( think my iPhone one is under £10) or up to , what, a £1000 plus on a streamer. The only thing I can definitively say is the stream sound from my MacBook Air is better than my iPad and way better than my iPhone....

[jayne lee wilson]

I tend not to think of amplifiers having a Toslink or S/PDIF input - but of course I guess some nowadays do have digital as well as analogue inputs. Not all DACs use USB, and some do Toslink etc. as well as USB, but the Toslink might be different - for example greater bit depth etc.

Many amps now incorporate DACs with such digital inputs.
On DACs over the last 10 years or so, most inputs will do 24-bit resolution - there is no inherent advantage or superiority for Toslink in this respect. But USB-asynch does have genuine advantages. See #18 above for an uptodate summary.

In fact, many optical implementations will top out at 24/96, whereas USB 2 (i.e asynchronous) can go further, to 192 or 384 kHz, should you so require...
Optical (Toslink) may seem better protected from electrical/Rf interference, but it is often held back by connector and cable quality. As anyone who has fiddled around with the flimsy little beasts will know!

If you're serious about sound but want to use Optical, try to find a Glass-Fibre model. QED and Wireworld still make them, but they won't be cheap. These usually have better plugs as well.

[Dave2002]

Optical (Toslink) may seem better protected from electrical/Rf interference, but it is often held back by connector and cable quality. As anyone who has fiddled around with the flimsy little beasts will know!

If you're serious about sound but want to use Optical, try to find a Glass-Fibre model. QED and Wireworld still make them, but they won't be cheap. These usually have better plugs as well.

Sometimes optical is the only way, unless one buys completely new equipment. Until recently I'd always been sceptical about problems with optical cables - until I found one which just sort of "slopped" around in the socket end - totally useless. Mostly they've not been bad however, and I really don't believe that there are significant differences between optical cables - even plastic ones - but that is contingent on the plugs and sockets all fitting together. I know that some people have tried to do measurements on optical cables and detected measurable differences, such as due to reflections, but mostly the differences are in parts of the spectrum which should have no significant effect on the devices being connected together. Poor physical construction can, however, present very real problems - though I have only really experienced that once.

[Sir Velo]

I am ashamed to say that I am only 62 years of age and totally bewildered by all of this. I daresay that if I had someone by my side to demonstrate it all, I might become interested, but if I am truthful, I think I just don't have the patience! My loss, of course.

I was a download/streaming sceptic until about 5 years ago. Initially, I was tempted by the odd Hi Res download to play on my Walkman when out and about, or in the car when the CD player wasn't an option. Quite quickly I became convinced that the improvement in sound that I experienced was in fact genuine.

Over the last few years with improvements in broadband speeds, downloads and streaming have become increasingly viable. You no longer have to wait half an hour to download a single disc in 24/96 sound for example. Booklets are available to download. Moreover, as Bryn and others have noted, applications such as Qobuz allow you to import discs without the need to purchase them. They remain on your hard drive until you delete them or clear the cache. Therefore, any issues with broadband speed are made redundant as you can import discs at your leisure and listen at the highest bit rates without having concerns over dropouts ruining the listening experience!

[pastoralguy]

Many thanks indeed for the contributions. Very much appreciated. I’m now weighing up my options.

[Dave2002]

Many thanks indeed for the contributions. Very much appreciated. I’m now weighing up my options.

I'm reviewing this concept - not sure if this is the best thread. I went for several devices earlier on - including the Logitech devices - which I liked - but unfortunately the company pulled the plug on those. I tried Chromecast Audio - but I'm not sure I can get that to work with downloads unless I connect one of my computers. I have spare computers, but then they really need to be controlled somehow. I don't really want to have to use a TV as a monitor in order to do the selections.

Also, do some of these get picky about playing FLAC downloads? I might try to reinstate my Logitech for downloads, but I'm not sure if it'll stream/play FLAC files.
I still have the ability to make audio CDs from downloaded files - and maybe those would be good enough.

Generally I feel somewhat let down by the various technical gizmos - some of which work, and some only work with some formats or some interfaces.

Over the last year I have become somewhat less enamoured of having to spend time sorting out technical problems of connectivity or file formats. CDs may not have been ideal or "perfect", but at least they were mostly simple to use.
I could I suppose buy some form of dedicated streamer - but fear that would over time become just one more bit of junk to put in a cupboard.

I saw a post somewhere recently about a fairly cheap streaming device - seemingly made in the UK, but with instructions in either French or Dutch. Seemed to be similar in concept to a Chromecast - but whether it would have the same issues re software etc. I don't know.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I'm reviewing this concept - not sure if this is the best thread. I went for several devices earlier on - including the Logitech devices - which I liked - but unfortunately the company pulled the plug on those. I tried Chromecast Audio - but I'm not sure I can get that to work with downloads unless I connect one of my computers. I have spare computers, but then they really need to be controlled somehow. I don't really want to have to use a TV as a monitor in order to do the selections.

Also, do some of these get picky about playing FLAC downloads? I might try to reinstate my Logitech for downloads, but I'm not sure if it'll stream/play FLAC files.
I still have the ability to make audio CDs from downloaded files - and maybe those would be good enough.

Generally I feel somewhat let down by the various technical gizmos - some of which work, and some only work with some formats or some interfaces.

Over the last year I have become somewhat less enamoured of having to spend time sorting out technical problems of connectivity or file formats. CDs may not have been ideal or "perfect", but at least they were mostly simple to use.
I could I suppose buy some form of dedicated streamer - but fear that would over time become just one more bit of junk to put in a cupboard.

I saw a post somewhere recently about a fairly cheap streaming device - seemingly made in the UK, but with instructions in either French or Dutch. Seemed to be similar in concept to a Chromecast - but whether it would have the same issues re software etc. I don't know.

I'm not up for spending over £1,000 - no doubt I could spend much more, for a sparkling box where the manufacturer might have disappeared, be taken over, or regretfully decided they can "no longer support" what they sold me in 5, 10 or (if I am spared) 20 years. Lower cost streaming units seem to come and go, are based in Europe or further afield and they would be imports - various complications or problems.

If I have a CD player with a Digital output that still works I can choose my DAC and play it lossless (albeit not the Hi-Res which I, personally, cannot discern). However shelf space is not only limited but with age progressing relentlessly CDs will have to be reduced which fills me with dread! As I am finding to my cost with books at the moment - major divestment exercise, I am now very reluctant to enter a bookshop!

I still need to resolve how I play downloads losslessly. I think the Squeezebox system will do it - user supported environment (and I see they certainly do support it) with options like using raspberry pi units as squeezeboxes - I've seen them controlled from mobile phones. But I would still be grappling with settings, upgrades, IT type interventions.

Currently I am using the "You Tube Music" (successor to Google Play) which has sorted the original crass interface a little. I can upload my own downloads on to YT Music and it will play at Variable bit rate 320kbs (IIRC). That's good enough for music in the kitchen, the car, workshop, decorating with a (decent) bluetooth speaker, gardening etc etc. If they delivered lossless, with the ability to upload my own FLAC downloads YT Music would be hard to beat - just availability of booklets would be an issue. And not forgetting the wonderful Naxos Music Library as at the least a try before buy albeit at a lower bitrate (but I wonder if its better than they state) - http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...-library/page2. Naxos ML via my County Library - or yours - or for any of you in the UK able to enrol at the Barbican Library when we are able to visit London again - and a free service from both.

I'm also currently using a second streaming service - IDAGIO (Berlin based) which has a fair breadth of music available (if not some of the byways of, for example, less well known British composers) and they assure me my FLAC subscription will deliver a FLAC lossless stream from the optical output of a Chromecast Audio into my DACs on the two highest quality systems where I listen with undivided attention. Given I paid £15 for the Chromecast on its launch I don't stand to lose too much when the support runs out and its unuseable. IIRC Qobuz delivers lossless / Hi-Res so that's an option I might switch to..... (If I get FLAC into and out of my Chromecasts).

Another option for a system like mine might be the Sonos connect units. Sonos seem determined to stay in the market and weathered the storm when they tried to make obsolete the first generation of their units. I might be tempted but I would need to research the options using the connect range. However, I suspect whilst I remain as busy as I am, and unwilling to pay handsomely, I will stick with the streaming services and CDs. Of those few downloads I must have in lossless quality where the recordings are not available from IDAGIO (or Qobuz if I switch) I will have to connect up from a laptop or yes - burn to a CD, if I can't get an original CD.

All that might appear complicated, but at least they are consumer services - I'm with you I don't want to have to go "under the bonnet" and get involved in IT settings, conflicts, support appeals and attempts to resolve "issues".

[Bryn]

Maybe I am missing something here but what is wrong with using a small second-hand laptop or mini-PC, and USB-fed external DAC? There are many such laptops available for around £100 if you don't have an old but still serviceable one sitting in a cupboard.

[Sir Velo]

Maybe I am missing something here but what is wrong with using a small second-hand laptop or mini-PC, and USB-fed external DAC? There are many such laptops available for around £100 if you don't have an old but still serviceable one sitting in a cupboard.

I run Audirvana (which manages all my local FLAC files) and Qobuz Desktop for windows (for streaming and "imports") through a now mid range spec laptop running Windows 10 with absolutely no issues. First rate sound achieved through the Audiolab DAC+ connected into the rest of the hifi components. Absolutely no reason why good hifi should cost a packet these days.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I run Audirvana (which manages all my local FLAC files) and Qobuz Desktop for windows (for streaming and "imports") through a now mid range spec laptop running Windows 10 with absolutely no issues. First rate sound achieved through the Audiolab DAC+ connected into the rest of the hifi components. Absolutely no reason why good hifi should cost a packet these days.

............does that mean wired connection to the hi-fi, then?

I forgot, if the listener is an Apple user, an Airport Express (and, I think a previous generation - has optical out - Apple TV) can deliver an audio stream to a DAC and hi-fi, which would be wireless. I think the Airport Express is now no longer produced but I am aware of one happy user amongst the members here, using an iPAD etc. (Anyone pursuing this idea should seek out the 2nd generation AEX - connected by a cable to the power supply. The version which has integral 3 pins and is plugged in to the mains was known to have a poor DAC (in case you opted to use it).

I have a vague recollection the AEX and TV can output bitperfect optical to a DAC of one's choice. I only recollect this because it was possible to use the AEX for the same purpose on a Windows PC - however before I tried that, Rogue Amoeba withdrew support for the software which made that possible. I'm also not sure what the options are for a music player (for downloads) certainly, of course, it included iTunes.