François-Xavier Roth's Heroic Eroica

[richardfinegold]

Because, it is quite frankly total crap! The 7th, no better. The guy's having a laugh.

I was just reporting on the Fanfare critic at the time of my post, but I managed to listen to the Roth Fifth yesterday while I waited for my own medical appointment that was over an hour late (it’s no fun being on the other side of the Health Care interaction) and constantly removing the headphones in the hope that the receptionist was bellowing out my name, so not an ideal listening experience. Still, what I did hear didn’t make me wish to return for another go around. That was my reaction to the Roth Eroica as well. Otoh, considering these works have been done to death over the years, it is refreshing to hear a new viewpoint.

[visualnickmos]

Without checking earlier posts, I would suggest that the subjects of Nick's opprobrium are the recent Teodor Currentzis/Anima Aeterna LvB 5th and 7th, rather than anything from F-X R. The latter's recording of the 7th has not yet appeared on CD to my knowledge. But Nick may wish to confirm/deny my surmise.

Indeed, it is Currentzis to which I refer. I think he must have been mentioned somewhere upthread. I should have been more clear. My apologies.

[jayne lee wilson]

Highly detailed Reviews in Musicweb and Gramophone of the Roth 5 and 7 concurred with my own enthusiasm to some extent (#1 and #86 above); they were largely positive, the Gramophone with a few carefully assessed reservations......

MusicWeb, with links to the 5th....

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/May/Beethoven-sy3-HMM902421.htm

(You may find some G., googled with free access. Will post G. refs later if I can).

I swear by close and repeated listening. One has to immerse oneself in the present performance, as it were forsaking all other, not leaping to comparison and at least attempting to free oneself of one's internal models (Past attachments, favourites, experiences of the music)....and yes - read as many reviews as you can for the obvious reasons: they may have noticed things that you have missed. My own experience, time and time over....
(Reading, or hearing, a single review and rushing to leap onto its own subjective bandwagon is the worst thing you could do).

The only problem I have with the Currentzis Beethoven is - the oddly extreme reactions of various listeners (not Gramophone, who were very precise as usual, but very positive too). The 7th is: for the most part surprisingly respectful - crisp, lean and lively, with great rhythmic precision (no dactylic ambiguities in (i)) and textural transparency; trio thrillingly uptospeed. The dynamics are taken to hushed extremes in the allegretto, yes, which is I think why some listeners took against it. It is essentially a poised and classical reading with fine recorded sound, whether in hi-res or off of CD.
(If you really want interpretive extremity, try the late CMW/Harnoncourt 5th finale....)

So much to say so little time. Very poorly today so reluctant to enter into lengthy debate; waiting for the GP phone-consult ; off to sit under a tree....

(Incidentally - the Roth LvB is a part of the HM 20/27 series; they have indeed covered the 7th, but with Golz and the Freiburg Baroque; and extremely fine it is. Part of a composite cycle of highest interest and fine sound)

[Bryn]

Highly detailed Reviews in Musicweb and Gramophone of the Roth 5 and 7 concurred with my own enthusiasm to some extent (#1 and #86 above); they were largely positive, the Gramophone with a few carefully assessed reservations......

MusicWeb, with [broken?] links to the 5th....

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2021/May/Beethoven-sy3-HMM902421.htm

The link in the opening paragraph leads to a dead end:

The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.

[Barbirollians]

I didn’t like the Currentzis recordings much but it was the selling them separately for full price for specious reasons that annoyed me most !

[jayne lee wilson]

The link in the opening paragraph leads to a dead end:

Et voilà.....

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2020/Dec/Beethoven-Gossec-HMM902423.htm

[Alison]

Plenty to enjoy in Roth’s Eroica for this non HIPPster listener.

So Hurwitz pleas for reviewers to consider the critical consensus.

Hang on, hasnt he made a career out of flying against the very same?

[Bryn]

Et voilà.....
http://www.musicweb-international.co...-HMM902423.htm

Thanks.

[Sir Velo]

Interesting to see that Christophe Rousset and his Les Talents Lyriques have recently been giving some Beethoven concerts in Europe....I wonder if they will be recording any of them.

Almost certainly I would think. Given Rousset is a classicist through and through, this promises a stimulating take on Beethoven.

If anyone wants an appetizer of what to expect - here is an excerpt of the group in rehearsal.

[richardfinegold]

I listened to the Roth again this morning. Once you get past the introduction it gains some momentum and coherence. My problem with it is one that I have with all Chamber sized groups in this music, HIPP or modern instruments, and that is that the tradeoff for an increase in speed and agility is offset but a feeling of excessive lightness. Since my first and only recording of this piece for my formative listening years was Furtwangler, who builds sound from the ground up, I just expect a certain sort of mass, and the tradeoff for that tends to be a loss of speed. It is a tricky balance, and for me the Eroica is the most difficult Beethoven Symphony to get right. However that caveat certainly isn't unique to this Conductor or Orchestra

[jayne lee wilson]

Not all that small really?
42 strings, 10 winds, 4 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 tb....

Larger again for the 5th....

[Pianoman]

I listened to the Roth again this morning. Once you get past the introduction it gains some momentum and coherence. My problem with it is one that I have with all Chamber sized groups in this music, HIPP or modern instruments, and that is that the tradeoff for an increase in speed and agility is offset but a feeling of excessive lightness. Since my first and only recording of this piece for my formative listening years was Furtwangler, who builds sound from the ground up, I just expect a certain sort of mass, and the tradeoff for that tends to be a loss of speed. It is a tricky balance, and for me the Eroica is the most difficult Beethoven Symphony to get right. However that caveat certainly isn't unique to this Conductor or Orchestra

If you don't like 'excessive lightness', then for heaven's sake don't get the Cristofori version with....single strings (one of the more whacky recent 'experiments, I would say generously). Roth is 'heavyweight by comparison...

[jayne lee wilson]

If you don't like 'excessive lightness', then for heaven's sake don't get the Cristofori version with....single strings (one of the more whacky recent 'experiments, I would say generously). Roth is 'heavyweight by comparison...

Forgotten about that one - thanks..... will seek out soon....

[Bryn]

Forgotten about that one - thanks..... will seek out soon....

Four fewer performers than the maximum that might have been accommodated for the premiere. Does anyone here know just how many participated in that premiere? I can't immediately recall whether it was mentioned in:

[Pianoman]

Forgotten about that one - thanks..... will seek out soon....

You’ll no doubt be richly rewarded…