François-Xavier Roth's Heroic Eroica

[Bryn]

I must confess to being puzzled at first by this reference to an abbreviation which I'd previously encountered only during my work on patent litigation in the medical field, until I realized that this is, of course, a most elegant way of assessing the way in which, and the extent to which, a recording of a musical item can (quite literally) get under one's skin.
Thanks to KB for eliciting the meaning of 'spread chord', by the way. That just leaves the Jam beat for me to puzzle over - or is the spread in question jam - a subtle reference to Strawberry Fields, perhaps?
(I shall now give my brain a rest by tackling the Times crossword ).

Not any old jam but The Jam, surely? (I have to admit that I have never knowingly listened to the teenage rockiing combo in question.)

[cloughie]

... aha! I read SQ as 'string quartet' and couldn't quite figure where one featured in the Eroica.

But your subcutaneous solution is more elegant...

.

Seek and thou shalt find:

https://broadbent-dunn.com/product/beethoven-symphony-no-3-eroica-movement-1-opus-55-string-quartet-score-score-digital-download/

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/search?search_query=Exton%20beethoven%20ancient%20consort%20praha

[cloughie]

Not any old jam but The Jam, surely? (I have to admit that I have never knowingly listened to the teenage rockiing combo in question.)

They went underground years ago Bryn. Weller never you may think! Always preferred Walter! Come to think of I prefer his CBSO Eroica to Roth’s!

[LMcD]

Not any old jam but The Jam, surely? (I have to admit that I have never knowingly listened to the teenage rockiing combo in question.)

There's an 'unofficial' CD by the Jam called 'Reluctant Heroes'.
'Went underground' brilliant.
I believe another of their ditties was inspired by Nevil Shute's 'A Town Like Malice'.

[Alison]

They went underground years ago Bryn. Weller never you may think! Always preferred Walter! Come to think of I prefer his CBSO Eroica to Roth’s!

[Ein Heldenleben]

As one not musically trained - but eternally fascinated by this masterpiece - I'd like to ask for a clarification of the term 'spread chord'. I infer from Richard's post that it means that the notes of a chord are not played simultaneously. Am I correct in so inferring, and how is a spread chord indicated in the score?

On the piano an arpeggiated ( or spread )chord is indicated with a wavy vertical line to the lhs of the chord . You play each note of the chord one after another usually going from the lower up through the middle notes to the treble .You can either release the notes as you play them or more likely hold them down .
It’s different with an orchestra. The opening violin chords of the Eroica in the first violins are four notes G (the lower open string ) , Eflat ( the first semitone up on the Dstring , B flat (ditto but on the next string up - the A string ) and then G ( a minor third up on the top E string . (NB I’m not a violinist so I may have the finger arrangement wrong) . This is what’s known as a triple stop. The chord is played with a quick sweep of the bow so it pretty much sounds as a simultaneous chord . Roth gets his players to play it more slowly so you can hear the individual notes - that’s what Richard , I , and some others think sounds odd . The normal way of indicating this spread would be to write out the individual notes with a time value. The point is that once the violin bow has passed over the string it won’t keep vibrating for ever so the violinist needs to know how long the notes are supposed to sound !

[vinteuil]

Seek and thou shalt find:

https://www.prestomusic.com/classica...onsort%20praha

... Ben Trovato! (One of the Cornish Trovatos, an old Liskeard family... )

.

[richardfinegold]

I must confess to being puzzled at first by this reference to an abbreviation which I'd previously encountered only during my work on patent litigation in the medical field, until I realized that this is, of course, a most elegant way of assessing the way in which, and the extent to which, a recording of a musical item can (quite literally) get under one's skin.
Thanks to KB for eliciting the meaning of 'spread chord', by the way. That just leaves the Jam beat for me to puzzle over - or is the spread in question jam - a subtle reference to Strawberry Fields, perhaps?
(I shall now give my brain a rest by tackling the Times crossword ).

Over here we use the abbreviation “SC” to indicate “sub-cutaneous” in a Medical Order. SQ is a widely utilized abbreviation with Audiophiles everywhere for Sound Quality.

[cloughie]

... Ben Trovato! (One of the Cornish Trovatos, an old Liskeard family... )

.

Maybe - from a long line of smugglers?

[kernelbogey]

On the piano an arpeggiated ( or spread )chord is indicated with a wavy vertical line to the lhs of the chord . You play each note of the chord one after another usually going from the lower up through the middle notes to the treble .You can either release the notes as you play them or more likely hold them down .
It’s different with an orchestra. The opening violin chords of the Eroica in the first violins are four notes G (the lower open string ) , Eflat ( the first semitone up on the Dstring , B flat (ditto but on the next string up - the A string ) and then G ( a minor third up on the top E string . (NB I’m not a violinist so I may have the finger arrangement wrong) . This is what’s known as a triple stop. The chord is played with a quick sweep of the bow so it pretty much sounds as a simultaneous chord . Roth gets his players to play it more slowly so you can hear the individual notes - that’s what Richard , I , and some others think sounds odd . The normal way of indicating this spread would be to write out the individual notes with a time value. The point is that once the violin bow has passed over the string it won’t keep vibrating for ever so the violinist needs to know how long the notes are supposed to sound !

Thank you so much! I'd more or less got there with a combination of closely reading and rereading Richard's post, ancient abandoned piano education and a little bit of score reading from time to time. But excellent to have such a clear exposition. I had never up to now noticed that the opening two chords of I were anything but just that.

[Richard Barrett]

Thank you so much! I'd more or less got there with a combination of closely reading and rereading Richard's post, ancient abandoned piano education and a little bit of score reading from time to time. But excellent to have such a clear exposition. I had never up to now noticed that the opening two chords of I were anything but just that.

I think the wavy line for spreading chords in the piano began to be specified only in Beethoven's time by the way, for example the first chord of his Tempest sonata was so notated in the first edition (I just checked!) whereas in baroque harpsichord music it was usual to spread chords very often without this having to be specified by the composer.

I thought it was quite interesting to hear in Bryn's Youtube link that none of the recordings of the opening chords of the Eroica have spread chords in the violins. I've checked a few other HIPP recordings of the Eroica that don't appear in that video (both Brüggen recordings and Immerseel) and they don't do it either.

[Bryn]

I think the wavy line for spreading chords in the piano began to be specified only in Beethoven's time by the way, for example the first chord of his Tempest sonata was so notated in the first edition (I just checked!) whereas in baroque harpsichord music it was usual to spread chords very often without this having to be specified by the composer.

I thought it was quite interesting to hear in Bryn's Youtube link that none of the recordings of the opening chords of the Eroica have spread chords in the violins. I've checked a few other HIPP recordings of the Eroica that don't appear in that video (both Brüggen recordings and Immerseel) and they don't do it either.

There has recently been a move towards spreading the opening piano chords in the 4th and 5th of Beethoven's Piano Concertos. I wonder if this has in some way influenced Roth's approach to the opening of the 3rd Symphony?

[LMcD]

Over here we use the abbreviation “SC” to indicate “sub-cutaneous” in a Medical Order. SQ is a widely utilized abbreviation with Audiophiles everywhere for Sound Quality.

The trouble is, I'm not an Audiophile - just a humble music-loving retired linguist who sometimes struggles, despite his best efforts, to grasp the meaning or significance of some of the abbreviations and terms used in some of the the threads that I follow - or try to follow. Yes, I could waste time looking them all up, but I don't honestly see why I should have to. Please don't underestimate my ignorance of music theory or overestimate the amount of time I have to spend scratching my head over the meaning of an obscure term when a perfectly simple one could be used - such as 'sound quality'.
TMA, that's what I say! I wonder whether others agree.

[cloughie]

There has recently been a move towards spreading the opening piano chords in the 4th and 5th of Beethoven's Piano Concertos. I wonder if this has in some way influenced Roth's approach to the opening of the 3rd Symphony?

Is the spreading of the chords because they are played as Fortepiano Concerti!

[Joseph K]

The trouble is, I'm not an Audiophile - just a humble music-loving retired linguist who sometimes struggles, despite his best efforts, to grasp the meaning or significance of some of the abbreviations and terms used in some of the the threads that I follow - or try to follow. Yes, I could waste time looking them all up, but I don't honestly see why I should have to. Please don't underestimate my ignorance of music theory or overestimate the amount of time I have to spend scratching my head over the meaning of an obscure term when a perfectly simple one could be used - such as 'sound quality'.
TMA, that's what I say! I wonder whether others agree.

You'd think a linguist, even a retired one, would be used to looking unfamiliar terms up.

Just sayin'...