Westminster box set

[Dave2002]

A few years ago I noticed box sets of recordings from the earlier Westminster label. I didn't follow those up at the time. I've just noticed these again at Amazon - I'm not sure if these are worth having, or if the box (newly repackaged?) contains any really unusual gems.

The current price seems reasonable given the number of CDs - under £80.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Westminster-Legacy-DG-box-set/dp/B00GBJVK0S/ref=pd_lpo_15_img_0/259-7982908-4179204?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GBJVK0S&pd_rd_r=02858de7-b518-4f2c-8367-791629ca59cf&pd_rd_w=f4UPp&pd_rd_wg=zZEQo&pf_rd_p=7b8e3b03-1439-4489-abd4-4a138cf4eca6&pf_rd_r=SF1E30VHDS6CEY1GR2H5&psc=1&refRID=SF1E30VHDS6CEY1GR2H5

[Dave2002]

Just looked at this again. John Fowler's review on the Amazon site gives more details. Scroll down to find the review. It seems that the earlier re-releases were much more complete, and had at least 120 CDs, whereas the current box has a selection of those - 40. There are still used sets of the earlier boxes with more CDs - probably from Korea - available at high prices.

Fowler also mentions a record label I'd never heard of - Command - from the USA. Apparently also had a good collection of recordings, which may deserve reissue.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Westminster-Legacy-DG-box-set/dp/B00GBJVK0S/ref=pd_lpo_15_img_0/259-7982908-4179204?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GBJVK0S&pd_rd_r=02858de7-b518-4f2c-8367-791629ca59cf&pd_rd_w=f4UPp&pd_rd_wg=zZEQo&pf_rd_p=7b8e3b03-1439-4489-abd4-4a138cf4eca6&pf_rd_r=SF1E30VHDS6CEY1GR2H5&psc=1&refRID=SF1E30VHDS6CEY1GR2H5

This might be a really good thing to have, or one to skip over. One reviewer suggested it was worth having for the Beethoven. Presumably that is the 9th under Monteux - the one symphony he didn't record for Decca.

[cloughie]

Just looked at this again. John Fowler's review on the Amazon site gives more details. Scroll down to find the review. It seems that the earlier re-releases were much more complete, and had at least 120 CDs, whereas the current box has a selection of those - 40. There are still used sets of the earlier boxes - probably from Korea - available at high prices.

Fowler also mentions a record label I'd never heard of - Command - from the USA. Apparently also had a good collection of recordings, which may deserve reissue.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Westminster-Legacy-DG-box-set/dp/B00GBJVK0S/ref=pd_lpo_15_img_0/259-7982908-4179204?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00GBJVK0S&pd_rd_r=02858de7-b518-4f2c-8367-791629ca59cf&pd_rd_w=f4UPp&pd_rd_wg=zZEQo&pf_rd_p=7b8e3b03-1439-4489-abd4-4a138cf4eca6&pf_rd_r=SF1E30VHDS6CEY1GR2H5&psc=1&refRID=SF1E30VHDS6CEY1GR2H5

This might be a really good thing to have, or one to skip over. One reviewer suggested it was worth having for the Beethoven. Presumably that is the 9th under Monteux - the one symphony he didn't record for Decca.

A bit of reading for you Dave - it was a good label - the excellent Steinberg Beethoven set on DG released earlier this year - one limiting factor on future releases my be whether the 35mm film has deteriorated - the finale of the Choral had to be transferred from vinyl because of this! That apart it would be great to see some more of the recordings released!

https://www.discogs.com/label/141830-Command-Classics

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/command-classics-stereo-35mm-lps-recommendations.73614/

http://www.arsc-audio.org/conference/audio/ARSC_conf_2012_Fine_slides.pdf

[Dave2002]

Interesting to note about the 2:1 compression mentioned by one reviewer, though was that only for the vinyl pressings? I remember one firm which was doing this with records to reduce the surface noise, and there was an expander available to play those records, which I think sounded quite good played that way. My guess is that with modern digital techniques those discs could be made to sound even better as the expansion could be done with fewer artefacts. The same compression techniques could also have been applied to tapes - so whether the master tapes were compressed in those ways - really not sure. If they were all done using the film recording medium, some different technology tricks might have been used.

[Dave2002]

JF also reviewed Steinberg's fairly recent reissue of Beethoven symphonies - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beethoven-P...s=music&sr=1-1

This quote is taken from his review ...

Between 1961 and 1968, Command Records recorded 24 LPs in Pittsburgh.
Command was a small audiophile label.
The master tapes were recorded on specially manufactured 35mm magnetic tape (35mm = 1.38 inches).
Sometimes referred to as “35mm film”, but this should not be confused with the 35mm film stock used for movies.
It has the same sprocket holes and thicker polyester base of 35mm cinema stock, but it has a ferric oxide layer coating the full width of the film, as opposed to a photographic emulsion.
35mm magnetic tape produced remarkable results, but fell out of favor in the late ‘60s due to high cost, and the introduction of Dolby noise reduction for standard tape recording.
The original 35mm tape recorders no longer exist, so new playback machines need to be built from scratch to play these tapes.

JF also points out that Steinberg mostly used Mahler's "re-orchestration" of Beethoven's 9th.

[jayne lee wilson]

A number of Command Classics open reel/LP transfers are available as downloads at HDTT, e.g. -

https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/collections/symphonies/products/beethoven-symphony-no-7-william-steinberg-the-pittsburgh-symphony-orchestra

...caveat emptor, the transfers are very vivid, dynamic and immediate, but tend to be warts-and-all.....

Scherchen's Beethoven (which I'm very fond of) appeared on Westminster originally, so at least some of the Beethoven in this box may his....IIRC his complete cycle was included in the original bigger collection. But these have been available in very good remastering from such as Tahra and Pristine for some time...

[richardfinegold]

I had several lps on the Command label, as they were bargain basement priced and in the cut out piles of the lp stores. Surfaces were always noisy. I believe they Liscensed recordings that probably appeared on other labels in Europe.
Regarding the Westminster Label,my experience with all of these mega boxes featuring labels from the fifties and sixties is that once the box set sells out it’s inventory, the individual recordings only remain available as mp3 downloads thereafter.

[Dave2002]

A number of Command Classics open reel/LP transfers are available as downloads at HDTT, e.g. -

https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/collections/symphonies/products/beethoven-symphony-no-7-william-steinberg-the-pittsburgh-symphony-orchestra

...caveat emptor, the transfers are very vivid, dynamic and immediate, but tend to be warts-and-all.....

Scherchen's Beethoven (which I'm very fond of) appeared on Westminster originally, so at least some of the Beethoven in this box may his....IIRC his complete cycle was included in the original bigger collection. But these have been available in very good remastering from such as Tahra and Pristine for some time...

Digging around, and looking at the reviews on the am site suggests that Sherchen is indeed the conductor of the Beethoven CDs, except it looks as though 1 and 5 are missing.

[Bryn]

A number of Command Classics open reel/LP transfers are available as downloads at HDTT, e.g. -

https://www.highdeftapetransfers.com/collections/symphonies/products/beethoven-symphony-no-7-william-steinberg-the-pittsburgh-symphony-orchestra

...caveat emptor, the transfers are very vivid, dynamic and immediate, but tend to be warts-and-all.....

Scherchen's Beethoven (which I'm very fond of) appeared on Westminster originally, so at least some of the Beethoven in this box may his....IIRC his complete cycle was included in the original bigger collection. But these have been available in very good remastering from such as Tahra and Pristine for some time...

Just a reminder that the Scribendum Art of Scherchen box notonly has all 9 Beethoven Symphonies but unlike the DG box it has mono recordings of 1,5,7 & 9.

[cloughie]

Just a reminder that the Scribendum Art of Scherchen box notonly has all 9 Beethoven Symphonies but unlike the DG box it has mono recordings of 1,5,7 & 9.

Scribendum use a variety of sources not just the Westminster/DG.

[Bryn]

Scribendum use a variety of sources not just the Westminster/DG.

Indeed, but some here might be interested in the Beethoven he recorded for others.