VPO Brahms Cycles

[cloughie]

This is the Japanese set I have, via Tower - plus the Tchaikovsky set, though of course those recordings are easy to obtain, apart from the LSO Fifth perhaps. Both are 3CDs.

The LSO Tchaik 5 is on an Eloquence twofer which includes the Atzmon 3rd. The Brahms Abbado set would be a good one for Eloquence! Don’t know what the timings are but probably get the symphonies with no couplings on a twofer!

[Barbirollians]

A VPO/Walter set would have been something to hear.

[richardfinegold]

I have some of the earlier recordings with Janowski and the RLPO - but I assume that the Pentatone recordings surpass the earlier ASV issues and are worth looking out for.

A few years ago I would have put Levine quite high on my list, and I particularly like some of his earlier recordings. Unfortunately my list is now tempered by other non-musical aspects, which are a consideration for some of my other recordings on my favourites lists. Doesn't alter the quality of the music making though, but makes me think each time I hear or see performances by these people.

Had it not been for those extra musical associations, I might have plunked for Levine here as well. Otoh, I have scarcely played the Levine/CSO set that I own. I didn’t reject Bohm for the same reasons, more because I usually find him to be a plodder.

[Barbirollians]

Sorry...I didn’t mention that this link differs significantly from the Amazon U.S. offerings...
My current favorite Brahms cycle is Paavo Jaarvi/Bremen, on a Blu Ray. Tempos are brisk with a good pulse maintained, singing lines, and transparent textures. My longstanding favorite cycle of a more traditional approach is Sanderling/Dresden. Cycles that I have lost some affection for are Klemperer, which now seems stiff and massive, and Andrew Manze, whose virtues have been equalled and surpassed by Jaarvi. I also have cycles be Levine (Chicago) and Szell, and the rest my Brahms are individual recordings. I also have Furtwangler.
Still trying to figure out if I am able, or if it is safe, to go to work this morning...

Forgot to mention Janowski/Pittsburgh on Pentatone, which is really superb and an excellent multichannel recording

You mean you don’t have Bruno Walter’s set with the Columbia SO ? Desert island Brahms for me.

[jayne lee wilson]

I assume that's the shipping cost, not the item cost. That would bring the cost of getting it to the UK around £26-30 in total. Is it worth buying more from Japan in order to reduce the proportion of shipping cost, or does that would put up the import charges too much making the per item cost even more? I have bought from Japan on one occasion, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

I guess the fun went out of ordering Japanese CDs a few years ago... more consistent charges, the explosion of choice beyond Toshiba Remasters and Pony HDCDS into HQCD, SHMCD, BLUspec CD, and then the SACD editions..... too much to get your head around, sometimes....

With a good DAC or disc-player you can use filters etc. to shape & shade the sound as you wish, so...

[Dave2002]

With a good DAC or disc-player you can use filters etc. to shape & shade the sound as you wish, so...

If you're really desperate you can feed the audio into a DAW and process it - though it's impossible to remove reverberation, but quite easy to add it in, and if there are significant losses in the high or low registers, those can't be compensated for.

You could also feed the outputs through a mixing desk - either hardware or software, and drive multiple outputs.

I doubt that many people have the time, knowledge and perseverance to do that. Easier to just put on the best disc you can, or if you do downloads, use the best one which you like, and enjoy the music.

[vinteuil]

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If you're really desperate you can feed the audio into a DAW and process it - though it's impossible to remove reverberation, but quite easy to add it in, and if there are significant losses in the high or low registers, those can't be compensated for.

You could also feed the outputs through a mixing desk - either hardware or software, and drive multiple outputs.

I doubt that many people have the time, knowledge and perseverance to do that. Easier to just put on the best disc you can, or if you do downloads, use the best one which you like, and enjoy the music.

... an easier solution might be to use the ferneyhoughgeliebte (of blessed memory) option - buy a decent score, and read the music.

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[jayne lee wilson]

If you're really desperate you can feed the audio into a DAW and process it - though it's impossible to remove reverberation, but quite easy to add it in, and if there are significant losses in the high or low registers, those can't be compensated for.

You could also feed the outputs through a mixing desk - either hardware or software, and drive multiple outputs.

I doubt that many people have the time, knowledge and perseverance to do that. Easier to just put on the best disc you can, or if you do downloads, use the best one which you like, and enjoy the music.

Every digital replay component you can audition, home-trial or buy, will have made filter/OS/US choices for you, even if no choice is offered; which are far more subtle and musically far-reaching than any graphic equaliser type add/subtract reverb/nightclub/stadium etc measures.
(That's why even "the best discs" will sound displeasing to someone, somewhere...)

The filtering etc involves musically influential matters of resolution, timing, space & depth, image precision, subtle frequency response adjusts etc... sheer immediacy and realism really, but at a deep level - and responded to more often on a subliminal level - unless you look into it..

Of course its not for everyone....what is? But I became frustrated years ago, trying some 5-star review item and finding it less than pleasing to my ears, and needed to discover why....

[Dave2002]

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... an easier solution might be to use the ferneyhoughgeliebte (of blessed memory) option - buy a decent score, and read the music.

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Not everyone can do that, and I can't hear the low notes of the double bass that way.

[jayne lee wilson]

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... an easier solution might be to use the ferneyhoughgeliebte (of blessed memory) option - buy a decent score, and read the music.

.

The musically-untrained among us find that attempting to follow a score leads away from, not deeper into, musical enjoyment...so the first movement ends as you scramble around trying to pick up the thread in the development...

But it can be useful to check a detail in the score afterward of course.

Sorry everyone, for going a bit offtopic here....

[Dave2002]

Every digital replay component you can audition, home-trial or buy, will have made filter/OS/US choices for you, even if no choice is offered; which are more subtle and musically far-reaching than any graphic equaliser type add/subtract reverb/nightclun/stadium etc measures.
They involve musically influential matters of resolution, space & depth, image precision, subtle frequency response adjusts etc... sheer immediacy and realism really, but at a deep level.

What makes you think that kit like that isn't actually used during the making and distribution of the discs or downloads? Often it is.

[jayne lee wilson]

What makes you think that kit like that isn't actually used during the making and distribution of the discs or downloads? Often it is.

Of course it is. My points concern replay choices for home listening - understanding them or not as you wish..... the more revealing the system, the more useful these choices become. I've recently been enjoying CD to DSD conversion.... much favoured by the late Ken Ishiwata in his SACD/CD players...

But as for the Vienna Phil, I wish they still sounded like they do here.....

https://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/beethoven-piano-concertos-nos-1-2-wilhelm-backhaus-wiener-philharmoniker-hans-schmidt-isserstedt/vedskmkvq5ktb

...remarkably light, agile pianism too...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Perhaps the worst thing that happened to the VPO was the steady move away from Decca. The orchestra was under exclusive contract with Decca and a constant stream of fine recordings came from this partnership during the 1950s, '60s and '70s. But once DG got in on the act, their recorded sound was detrimental to the unique Vienna Philharmonic qualities, making their playing sound thick and muddy. In the case of Brahms symphonies, the Bernstein DG recordings are actually rather better, possibly because these were not recorded in the Musikverein, a venue that DG has never seemed to get quite right.

[richardfinegold]

Perhaps the worst thing that happened to the VPO was the steady move away from Decca. The orchestra was under exclusive contract with Decca and a constant stream of fine recordings came from this partnership during the 1950s, '60s and '70s. But once DG got in on the act, their recorded sound was detrimental to the unique Vienna Philharmonic qualities, making their playing sound thick and muddy. In the case of Brahms symphonies, the Bernstein DG recordings are actually rather better, possibly because these were not recorded in the Musikverein, a venue that DG has never seemed to get quite right.

Interesting.I’ve ordered the Bernstein so I appreciate the comment. The Karajan Bruckner symphonies sounds pretty impressive on DG...currently listening to Furtwangler’s 1944 Eroica with VPO, on Music &Arts. Really a good recording for a radio feed, better than many live performances from twenty years later...

[jayne lee wilson]

Perhaps the worst thing that happened to the VPO was the steady move away from Decca. The orchestra was under exclusive contract with Decca and a constant stream of fine recordings came from this partnership during the 1950s, '60s and '70s. But once DG got in on the act, their recorded sound was detrimental to the unique Vienna Philharmonic qualities, making their playing sound thick and muddy. In the case of Brahms symphonies, the Bernstein DG recordings are actually rather better, possibly because these were not recorded in the Musikverein, a venue that DG has never seemed to get quite right.

Bit puzzled here....the Gramophone Reviews of the Brahms Symphonies with VPO/Bernstein (9/83 (LP), 1/84 (CD)) state that they were "recorded at concerts in the Musikvereinsaal, Vienna, in 1981 and 1982"..........