Sir John Barbirolli

[Cockney Sparrow]

Almost too much of a good thing and more suited to a public collection.

Not sure how that would work but I understand the sentiment. I could spend a fair amount of time being a librarian - shelving - I considered a bar code reader! CDs were withdrawn from all my local County Libraries a few years ago and concentrated in the (one) performing arts library, and only part of the "collection" is displayed. The catalogue & ability to retrieve any specific item - they admit is not entirely reliable. There was a fight to retain a dedicated performing arts library - when it had to move, drama as well as music groups agitated f. Last I looked, it wasn't possible to go in an read journals and "browse" the racks they did have - actually, they are open as "normal" now ( rather - at present).

How would they check the return of that number of CDs? I think those boxes are aimed at folks pretty much like us, or those progressing to building up their collection - heartening, if so, that younger collectors want the disc not the download file.......
I understand an artist early in their career these days still sees physical disc(s) as a milestone on their career - resital discs and the rest. There must be enough of us buying these big boxes for EMI, oops - Warner - Universal etc to make a profit. Do they sell well in the US, and the Far East (or any other market)?

[cloughie]

Almost too much of a good thing and more suited to a public collection.

As a lifetime JB fan - I have most of the recordings and the ‘remastering’ argument doesn’t sway me.

[cloughie]

Not sure how that would work but I understand the sentiment. I could spend a fair amount of time being a librarian - shelving - I considered a bar code reader! CDs were withdrawn from all my local County Libraries a few years ago and concentrated in the (one) performing arts library, and only part of the "collection" is displayed. The catalogue & ability to retrieve any specific item - they admit is not entirely reliable. There was a fight to retain a dedicated performing arts library - when it had to move, drama as well as music groups agitated f. Last I looked, it wasn't possible to go in an read journals and "browse" the racks they did have - actually, they are open as "normal" now ( rather - at present).

How would they check the return of that number of CDs? I think those boxes are aimed at folks pretty much like us, or those progressing to building up their collection - heartening, if so, that younger collectors want the disc not the download file.......
I understand an artist early in their career these days still sees physical disc(s) as a milestone on their career - resital discs and the rest. There must be enough of us buying these big boxes for EMI, oops - Warner - Universal etc to make a profit. Do they sell well in the US, and the Far East (or any other market)?

…and as we know CS, public libraries do offer free streaming from the Naxos library where we can listen to the gaps in our physical collections! I now have my own Barbirolli box as a a result of de jewel casing and the use of a plastic storage box.

[HighlandDougie]

As a lifetime JB fan - I have most of the recordings and the ‘remastering’ argument doesn’t sway me.

But should you be tempted, you could either bid for a copy or "pay now" £99.99 for it (plus a small amount for P&P) as in:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255206670588?hash=item3b6b80c0fc:g:H9kAAOSwXmlhgUwQ

[Nimrod]

As a lifetime JB fan - I have most of the recordings and the ‘remastering’ argument doesn’t sway me.

Me too, Cloughie. I've heard a few of the remastered CD's and can't tell the difference! Old age hearing loss probably contributes to the result! I have most of the recordings from PYE, and quite a few of the early post-war HMV ones too, thanks to the Barbirolli Society, so the need for the Warner box, however commendable that they issued it, is minimal. However, I'm pleased that the boxed set may have reached the ears of many who had not previously listened to JB's recordings.

[gradus]

Listened to JB's stereo Mahler 6 the other day and was really bowled over. Excellent recording and pressing (CFP) too.

[Barbirollians]

Me too, Cloughie. I've heard a few of the remastered CD's and can't tell the difference! Old age hearing loss probably contributes to the result! I have most of the recordings from PYE, and quite a few of the early post-war HMV ones too, thanks to the Barbirolli Society, so the need for the Warner box, however commendable that they issued it, is minimal. However, I'm pleased that the boxed set may have reached the ears of many who had not previously listened to JB's recordings.

I am sure you are right and I really did not need it having collected so many of his recordings . I will be pleased to have the Orchestre de Paris La Mer though which is long lost.

[visualnickmos]

As a lifetime JB fan - I have most of the recordings and the ‘remastering’ argument doesn’t sway me.

I sometimes think the 'remastering' thing is no more than a marketing ploy. I have plenty of CDs that are, shall I say, 'UNremastered' and are absolutely stunning. Leads me to ask "What is the difference that should be apparent to the extent that my enjoyment will be noticeably enhanced?"

[pastoralguy]

I sometimes think the 'remastering' thing is no more than a marketing ploy. I have plenty of CDs that are, shall I say, 'UNremastered' and are absolutely stunning. Leads me to ask "What is the difference that should be apparent to the extent that my enjoyment will be noticeably enhanced?"

I think it depends on the original recordings. I have the complete Karajan 1960’s, 1970’s, 1980’s and the opera discs which were re-mastered. I think they’re much better than the original cd issues which were very brightly lit. Probably since Karajan was a notorious ‘Knob twiddler!’

These re-issues are, imho, much more musical.

[jayne lee wilson]

I've made extensive comparisons of Decca and EMI remasters earlier this century, on series such as Decca Legends, EMI GROCS and GARCS, and Testament.

Most were an audible improvement (in varying degrees, sometimes quite subtle) on the earlier EMI Studios or Decca Doubles, in smoothness of frequency response, clarity and immediacy of detail and often a better acoustic presence; all adding to greater realism and an easier-on-the-ear balance.

There are many approaches to remastering, from more "interventionist" techniques using very sophisticated digital kit to minimise tape or LP noise, peak distortion, remove dropout and pitch irregularities etc., to a more warts-and-all transfer staying as close as possible to the original tape master. This latter was used on the famous EMI/Toshiba Japanese issues, from the original tapes of 1950s-1970s recordings from Klemperer, Karajan, Cluytens etc. Many were an utter revelation in immediacy and realism, drawing you into the hall space with the performers; some could be a bit fierce and high-level though, with intrusive noise and a degree of roughness at the frequency extremes; one or two, all too obviously suffering from dynamic compression of the original. Comparing them with later European issues (e.g. Elatus, which often sound poor compared to original Eratos) the latter were smoother and easier to listen to but.... less "present", all too safe in that comparison.

The agony of choice...!
I must add though, that Paul Baily's work for Testament was often the perfect centre-ground; very close to the Toshiba immediacy, but just that bit easier on the ears... this was striking on the Cluytens' Roussel 3 & 4. Very Clever technically - but all of course down to a great pair of ears and long experience....

But those Toshibas are still a very vivid experience, and a great adventure getting them from HMV Japan at the time! A box of 12 CDs was delivered here from Tokyo in about 3 days, at around £4 per disc, and Customs didn't even bother.... but that changed quite soon, somewhat curbing your enthusiasm...

Digital can be mysterious.
I've heard some budget reissues (e.g. EMI Red Line of the Vogt/Rattle Beethoven) sound less realistic or immediate than the original issues, if not always by much, despite no acknowledgement of remastering or other changes. After some comparisons I sent the reissues back. After which, I always tried to track down a 2ndhand first edition...
And I've rarely been disappointed.

[cloughie]

I am sure you are right and I really did not need it having collected so many of his recordings . I will be pleased to have the Orchestre de Paris La Mer though which is long lost.

Long lost indeed. I have it coupled with Nocturnes - the remainder o£ a 2cd OdeP set being recordings of French music coducted by Serge Baudo

[mikealdren]

I've sold a couple of early CD issues on Ebay (Rabin Elecrola set and Oistrakh Bruch/Beethoven) for exorbitant amounts of money. I replaced Oistrakh with the EMI 'Great Recordings' set and the sound is much better than the French EMI. The Rabin set was reissued in the Icon series and the transfers are identical to the Electrola i.e. very poor. I understand that the Testament set is better although I haven't heard it, at the time it was released, no reviewer seemed to compare the recording quality of te two sets. I also have a single CD from a small US label coupling the Magic Bow and Mosaics LPs and that is hugely better than the Electrola release, much more like the original LPs which were very good for their time.

[Barbirollians]

I've sold a couple of early CD issues on Ebay (Rabin Elecrola set and Oistrakh Bruch/Beethoven) for exorbitant amounts of money. I replaced Oistrakh with the EMI 'Great Recordings' set and the sound is much better than the French EMI. The Rabin set was reissued in the Icon series and the transfers are identical i.e. very poor. I understand that the Testament set is better although I haven't heard it, at the time it was released, no reviewer seemed to compare the recording quality of te two sets. I also have a single CD from a small US label coupling the Magic Bow and Mosaics LPs and that is hugely better than the Electrola release, much more like the original LPs which were very good for their time.

Some of the EMI Icon sets were variable . The Richter set had very harsh sound in the Schumann concerto in particular.

[Barbirollians]

Very good tonight to be reminded what a marvellous Tchaikovsky conductor Barbirolli was - his Halle Pathetique is outstanding.

[oliver sudden]

In the unlikely event that anyone’s interested, there’s a disc-by-disc review in a possibly unlikely place by, er, me:

https://x.com/CarlRosman/status/1275123838565658634?s=20

(Lockdown was good for some things.)

I have of course since noticed a few factual slips on my part which judging from what I have seen in this enjoyable and informative thread thus far will not escape the eye of some members.