Sir John Barbirolli

[Petrushka]

My box arrived yesterday too.

I'll start listening today. (Though where do I start?)

One thing that struck me on opening the box was just how very meagre the booklet is. A ten page essay, some photographs and a just a list of pieces in composer order which includes the CD numbers.

If you are going to issue such an important set you might as well provide a decent booklet (or even a book) to go with it. The contrast with, say, the lavish book for Julian Bream's complete RCA recordings box set is stark.

Also, why on earth is there no track listings or recording details other than on the backs of the individual CD covers?

I am very grateful to Warner Classics for compiling the box set and for the remasterings but at the same time it feels as though potential purchasers are being treated with disdain.

Anyway, I am putting together a full track listing with recording dates, venues, etc for my own reference. If I ever finish it I will provide a link to so that anyone interested can use it.

Yes, the booklet isn't anywhere near as lavish as the ones provided for the Bruno Walter or George Szell sets both on Sony and both of which I have. The recording details on the CD covers alone seems fair enough but, as JB recorded with a fair number of orchestras I'd have preferred some indication, other than just on the CD covers, of which recording features the Halle, Philharmonia, BBCSO, LSO etc. It's a bit of a jumble and I'd certainly be interested in a link to your spreadsheet when done.

A shame to see the EMI/HMV name and logo expunged from the priginal CD covers as JB never recorded a single note for Warner. Surely, the box could have made it prominently clear that it contains the complete EMI and Pye recordings?

I know some complain of short measure of those big boxes that merely reproduce the exact LP issue but I prefer it that way, despite the extra cost involved. If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing properly.

[johnb]

Yes, the booklet isn't anywhere near as lavish as the ones provided for the Bruno Walter or George Szell sets both on Sony and both of which I have. The recording details on the CD covers alone seems fair enough but, as JB recorded with a fair number of orchestras I'd have preferred some indication, other than just on the CD covers, of which recording features the Halle, Philharmonia, BBCSO, LSO etc. It's a bit of a jumble and I'd certainly be interested in a link to your spreadsheet when done.

A shame to see the EMI/HMV name and logo expunged from the priginal CD covers as JB never recorded a single note for Warner. Surely, the box could have made it prominently clear that it contains the complete EMI and Pye recordings?

I know some complain of short measure of those big boxes that merely reproduce the exact LP issue but I prefer it that way, despite the extra cost involved. If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing properly.

I agree with all of that.

This is a rough draft of where I have got to. I will probably change things to make the text larger.

At the moment it is a pdf file (experimenting). It can be downloaded and should print out onto A4 (with luck).

Feedback welcome.

https://app.box.com/s/hmehutk8wvbtnq101817xacs16x8hkzo

(No, I didn't type all of that. I started by copying and pasting the track details from Amazon.)

[Nimrod]

[Nimrod]

I received the box set yesterday. I’m listening to the early recordings from 78s. Really good transfers.

Elgar’s Introduction and Allegro, with the John Barbirolli Chamber Orchestra, is a revelation, and I can understand why the composer admired it so much.

I've been listening to that earlier this year on a Barbirolli Society issue of the same performance and I was also thrilled by it and, yes, Elgar must have been thrilled to hear it on disc. It would mean it would reach a much wider audience. It was the very first recording of the work and when one considers he never recorded it himself, was that because he thought this performance did full it justice?

[vibratoforever]

I have over the years collected the vast majority of this box but I suspect I am going to cave in .

Today listening to his recording of the Dvorak 8 - one of the very greatest IMO.

The Seventh was my favourite performance of the three on the original lps, but it was blighted by the recorded sound. I generally prefer Barbirolli's live recordings but those three Dvorak symphony studio recordings show him at his best - life-affirming music making. (And the Halle deserve similar credit)

[johnb]

Interesting that all the discs I've checked have been remastered by "Studio Art & Son, Annecy" (according to the CD sleeves) , rather than in-house. Does this mean that Warner now contract out remastering instead of using in-house facilities such as those that EMI used to have?

Incidentally I presume that by "Studio Art & Son, Annecy" they mean the French company called "Art & Son Studio".

Elgar's Introduction and Allegro has been mentioned - there are five recordings of be piece in the box: 1928, 1947, 1953, 1956 and the one everyone is familiar with recorded in 1962. I'm looking forward to comparing them.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Listening to these wonderful performances, many of them for the first time, I nevertheless find I'm missing something that was so apparent and special when hearing JB conducting live concerts.

Barbirolli liked to bring out some of the inner melodies in string writing, probably because he was a cellist and was aware of certain subtleties that some other others might have missed. These are often apparent in his recordings. However, in his concerts in the Free Trade Hall, my father and I noticed that he did the same thing with the lower brass, bringing out the trombones and tubas in a way that was unique to him, and very exciting. (It wasn't just the orchestra's characteristic playing, because when the Hallé was being conducted by George Weldon, or Maurice Handford, this particular effect just wasn't there.)

Do other forumists who saw and heard JB conducting live recall this?

[Bryn]

Interesting that all the discs I've checked have been remastered by "Studio Art & Son, Annecy" (according to the CD sleeves) , rather than in-house. Does this mean that Warner now contract out remastering instead of using in-house facilities such as those that EMI used to have?

Incidentally I presume that by "Studio Art & Son, Annecy" they mean the French company called "Art & Son Studio".

Elgar's Introduction and Allegro has been mentioned - there are five recordings of be piece in the box: 1928, 1947, 1953, 1956 and the one everyone is familiar with recorded in 1962. I'm looking forward to comparing them.

As the notes on the wrap sheet with box content on it states, Studio Art & Son were responsible for remastering at 192kKz/24 bit.

I gave in yesterday and took delivery today. I went straight to CD 29. The Sibelius 1st on that disc was new to me. The strings recorded sound a wee bit over-fierce, I thought, but a fine performance. Now to find which disc they have put Pohjola's Daughter on (to follow on after the 5th).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I went straight to CD 29. The Sibelius 1st on that disc was new to me. The strings recorded sound a wee bit over-fierce, I thought, but a fine performance. Now to find which disc they have put Pohjola's Daughter on (to follow on after the 5th).

Disc 29 - that’s one of the Pye ones, which were always on the harsh side, but those I’ve heard in this new set sound better in the new masterings, especially the 1956 Elgar 1.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Having reached disc 43, by which time Barbirolli had returned to EMI, his wonderful interpretation of VW5 reminds me of the concert I attended in the mid 1960s, of Sir John conducting this work. It was the first time I'd heard the work, and the programme notes included helpful printed music examples, as Halle Orchestra programmes did at the time.

[Barbirollians]

I am still resisting the big box but have not resisted the two recent Barbirolli Society issues.

The Kol Nidrei played in Record Review made that CD an immediate essential purchase and I have also taken delivery of the 2CD set of of Barbirolli's 70th birthday concert. This includes also a very interesting and rather poignant interview with Barbirolli at that time in which he clearly hoped to live on for more years yet and fascinating tributes from Michael Kennedy, CBE Rees , Jacqueline du Pre and Daniel Barenboim

It also includes a stupendous performance of VW's Sixth Symphony and a fine if old fashioned Beethoven 7 .

[johnb]

I've created a number of Excel files which, to an extent, remedy the lack of track information in the booklet.

I've used the track listing on the Amazon website as an initial basis, editing it where necessary and adding information for composer, performer, etc, etc.

Should anyone be interested I've posted links from which the files can be downloaded

There are no guarantees that the information is 100% accurate or that the files will print correctly on your printer (though they should with most printers).

Let me know of any problems, etc, etc.

By Composer-Work in table format

https://app.box.com/s/az7cdd098fv7wwccwb7n6spdyxtuktuy

A list of works in composer order, with performer, recording date, CD number and Track numbers. It is similar to the information in the booklet, but with additional information. The file also includes Stereo/Mono and original Label but these columns are hidden to enable the information to be printed out without the text being very small.

This is in a straightforward table format.

If someone wants to get a hard copy the print range is set and you should be able to print it "as is" without any further settings.

By Composer-Work - formatted to be easier on the eye

https://app.box.com/s/4vmqia8ydjyvmbw7rbwajwfie4m6pygu

Contains the same data as above but it is formatted to make it easier to read.
Should you want a hard copy, I've set page breaks at sensible places and the file should print "as is" without any further settings.

(No, I didn't manually do the formatted - I wrote a macro* to do that.)

Track Listing, formatted

https://app.box.com/s/aduoe5jrbhj7qyx7vefcoco947sz6acx

This provides the track listing by CD which is missing from the box.
Rather than being in a straightforward table, I wrote a macro* to format the data.
Should you want a hard copy, I've set page breaks at sensible places and the file should print "as is" without any further settings. Mind you, there are 30 pages.
[Edit 09/07/20: uploaded an amended version with the tracks and pieces column order reversed. Same link applies.]

Raw data

https://app.box.com/s/y4cb7bj022h7nkozdh4izs0lmdsyu2k8

The raw information which the above are based on - in rough and ready table form. It also includes recording locations and the names of the producers. It is probably of less use than the above three files. (I used Access to consolidate the data for the first two files and a macro to generate the data for the report in the third file.)

If anyone would like pdf files in preference to Excel please let me know.

All this is really an off shoot of having to sort out the tag data information for ripping the discs to a hard drive.

(I should get out more.)

[Later Edit]
* None of these files contain macros.

The Excel previews on the box website are pretty crude so don't judge the files on that basis.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Many thanks for this, johnb.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

One recording in the 109 CD box was recorded in stereo, but appears only in mono sound. The Pye tapes of the Elgar Cello Concerto, with Navarra as soloist, had deteriorated before the first CD transfer some years ago, but I had hoped someone might have traced a pristine stereo pressing from the late 50s or 60s - a long shot, as those Pye pressings were pretty dreadful in my experience.

But the ear soon adapts, and it remains my favourite reading of the work.

[cloughie]

One recording in the 109 CD box was recorded in stereo, but appears only in mono sound. The Pye tapes of the Elgar Cello Concerto, with Navarra as soloist, had deteriorated before the first CD transfer some years ago, but I had hoped someone might have traced a pristine stereo pressing from the late 50s or 60s - a long shot, as those Pye pressings were pretty dreadful in my experience.

But the ear soon adapts, and it remains my favourite reading of the work.

Was CC the 4th Side of the 1956 Sym 1?