Sir John Barbirolli

[visualnickmos]

If Sir John were back with us, what, I wonder, would he be recording, and/or what would we like him to record?
A George Lloyd symphony cycle, perhaps?

Shostakovich -

[cloughie]

I love the fact that Alpie has launched this thread under 'Ongoing Recording Projects'.


If Sir John were back with us, what, I wonder, would he be recording, and/or what would we like him to record?
A George Lloyd symphony cycle, perhaps?

He’d be the only 120 old conductor on the planet!

[Barbirollians]

I love the fact that Alpie has launched this thread under 'Ongoing Recording Projects'.


If Sir John were back with us, what, I wonder, would he be recording, and/or what would we like him to record?
A George Lloyd symphony cycle, perhaps?

I think all the Bruckner EMI never asked him to record because it was fixated with Klemperer , Mahler too 2-4 and 7 and how he would have loved today’s virtuosic Halle Orchestra.

[Edgy 2]

I love the fact that Alpie has launched this thread under 'Ongoing Recording Projects'.


If Sir John were back with us, what, I wonder, would he be recording, and/or what would we like him to record?
A George Lloyd symphony cycle, perhaps?

A Rubbra Symphony cycle too.

[AlanE]

Hello Alan - I too had the fortune to see the great JB at the City Hall - sitting in the seats behind the orchestra - tymps side - a shilling a ticket - some magical performances.

Hello Cloughie - I'm sure we must have shared many of Barbirolli's performances in Sheffield City Hall! My first visit was, I think, in 1959 as a 12 year old; I had an enthusiastic music teacher, Fred Rowley, one of those dedicated educators who extend their enthusiasm beyond the school timetable and he took me and a few other impressionable pupils to sit in the one shilling seats behind the orchestra, a wonderfully thrilling experience, even when I didn't quite understand the music! By the age of 16 I was joining the Halle's brass section for an interval pint in the pub behind the hall (I imagined they always played better afterwards). It saddens me nowadays to see so few young people at orchestral concerts. I left Sheffield in 1980 and when I revisited the City Hall for a Halle concert a few years ago it had been ineptly remodelled and the public seating behind the stage removed, along with the carved lions. But many of those early visits still resonate in my mind...

[vibratoforever]

Hello Cloughie - I'm sure we must have shared many of Barbirolli's performances in Sheffield City Hall! My first visit was, I think, in 1959 as a 12 year old; I had an enthusiastic music teacher, Fred Rowley, one of those dedicated educators who extend their enthusiasm beyond the school timetable and he took me and a few other impressionable pupils to sit in the one shilling seats behind the orchestra, a wonderfully thrilling experience, even when I didn't quite understand the music! By the age of 16 I was joining the Halle's brass section for an interval pint in the pub behind the hall (I imagined they always played better afterwards). It saddens me nowadays to see so few young people at orchestral concerts. I left Sheffield in 1980 and when I revisited the City Hall for a Halle concert a few years ago it had been ineptly remodelled and the public seating behind the stage removed, along with the carved lions. But many of those early visits still resonate in my mind...

I only saw JB's final season in Sheffield as I started a degree course there in 1969. I have been a devotee ever since. I doubt there will be recordings in these special editions that I don't already have. As for audio quality I have low standards, the Czech Phil Mahler 1 is the most satisfying recording I have. Hence I may not be subscribing.

There are off-air recordings circulating that have not made it to commercial cd to date - e.g. much Mahler with the Halle (5,6) and Berlin PO (4), superb concerto performances of Berg and Sibelius with Szeryng. I hope the anniversary may see such new performances emerge, perhaps through the Barbirolli Society.

[mikealdren]

My memories are of his occasional visits to Middlesbrough town hall, another fine old hall that has been incompetently modified since, its magnificent dark wooden ceiling painted in a dirty white. I gather it has recently been updated again, I hope they've done a better job than my local Fairfield halls!

[Barbirollians]

There are rumours too of BPO concerts with Bruckner that were recorded by German radio.

Also there was a concert which was apparently on Radio 3 in the 1960s which is in the Barbirolli a Life Recorded book of the Sibelius concerto with Alfredo Campoli that I would love to hear.

[mikealdren]

Also there was a concert which was apparently on Radio 3 in the 1960s which is in the Barbirolli a Life Recorded book of the Sibelius concerto with Alfredo Campoli that I would love to hear.

Me too, I wasn't aware that Campoli played the Sibelius.

[Once Was 4]

Hello Cloughie - I'm sure we must have shared many of Barbirolli's performances in Sheffield City Hall! My first visit was, I think, in 1959 as a 12 year old; I had an enthusiastic music teacher, Fred Rowley, one of those dedicated educators who extend their enthusiasm beyond the school timetable and he took me and a few other impressionable pupils to sit in the one shilling seats behind the orchestra, a wonderfully thrilling experience, even when I didn't quite understand the music! By the age of 16 I was joining the Halle's brass section for an interval pint in the pub behind the hall (I imagined they always played better afterwards). It saddens me nowadays to see so few young people at orchestral concerts. I left Sheffield in 1980 and when I revisited the City Hall for a Halle concert a few years ago it had been ineptly remodelled and the public seating behind the stage removed, along with the carved lions. But many of those early visits still resonate in my mind...

Sadly, many of those Halle brass players with whom you shared interval pints are no longer with us. I was lucky to work with them, mainly at the end of their careers; Bram Gay, the Principal trumpet (and was from New Zealand) went into management; he passed away quite recently; his Trumpet colleague Sydney King (one of the real old school, a legendary character and a particular crony of Sir John) a few years now. 1st Trombone Terence Nagle and Tuba player Stuart Roebuck are also now gone as are the married couple of horn players Arthur Bevan and Enid Roper (mind you, I suspect that they would have been having a nice cup of tea in those intervals!). Happily, my old teacher Julian Baker (wonderful player) is still with us and still active.

Without in any way ignoring the legacy of Sir John himself, let us remember all of these players who, often overworked and underpaid, spent hours on buses to bring live music of high quality to the North of England and elsewhere.

[Tony Halstead]

Sadly, many of those Halle brass players with whom you shared interval pints are no longer with us. I was lucky to work with them, mainly at the end of their careers; Bram Gay, the Principal trumpet (and was from New Zealand) went into management; he passed away quite recently; his Trumpet colleague Sydney King (one of the real old school, a legendary character and a particular crony of Sir John) a few years now. 1st Trombone Terence Nagle and Tuba player Stuart Roebuck are also now gone as are the married couple of horn players Arthur Bevan and Enid Roper (mind you, I suspect that they would have been having a nice cup of tea in those intervals!). Happily, my old teacher Julian Baker (wonderful player) is still with us and still active.

Without in any way ignoring the legacy of Sir John himself, let us remember all of these players who, often overworked and underpaid, spent hours on buses to bring live music of high quality to the North of England and elsewhere.

[cloughie]

Hello Cloughie - I'm sure we must have shared many of Barbirolli's performances in Sheffield City Hall! My first visit was, I think, in 1959 as a 12 year old; I had an enthusiastic music teacher, Fred Rowley, one of those dedicated educators who extend their enthusiasm beyond the school timetable and he took me and a few other impressionable pupils to sit in the one shilling seats behind the orchestra, a wonderfully thrilling experience, even when I didn't quite understand the music! By the age of 16 I was joining the Halle's brass section for an interval pint in the pub behind the hall (I imagined they always played better afterwards). It saddens me nowadays to see so few young people at orchestral concerts. I left Sheffield in 1980 and when I revisited the City Hall for a Halle concert a few years ago it had been ineptly remodelled and the public seating behind the stage removed, along with the carved lions. But many of those early visits still resonate in my mind...

Removing the lions was an act of vandalism - I fondly remember JB appearing from between them acknowledging the orchestra and his performances of the National Anthem were applause worthy before the concert proper began. Were you there when there were severe gales in Sheffield probably Feb 1962 - Tchaikovsky 6 was very atmospheric as the wind could be heard in the roof vents in the quiet passages. There were countless works that I grew to love by first hearing them there.

[Once Was 4]

Removing the lions was an act of vandalism - I fondly remember JB appearing from between them acknowledging the orchestra and his performances of the National Anthem were applause worthy before the concert proper began. Were you there when there were severe gales in Sheffield probably Feb 1962 - Tchaikovsky 6 was very atmospheric as the wind could be heard in the roof vents in the quiet passages. There were countless works that I grew to love by first hearing them there.

Hmmm! Sorry to go down memory lane again: mention of Sir John and the National Anthem reminds one that he always insisted that the trombone section took part in this - even if they were not needed in the first half of the concert and, indeed, if they were not needed at all! More than once they apparently had to travel somewhere just for 'Queen in G'.

Which takes me on to my very first gig with the Halle (at Harrogate Royal Hall); it was an all-Dvorak concert conducted by Maurice Handford and the symphony was No 8. This was just before Sir John died (I heard that Elgar 1 live from Kings Lynn the week after). I was on 4th horn and the 3rd horn explained that it was standard practice to leave that solo 3rd & 4th horn written low C (so played A for horn in D and D concert pitch) at the opening of the final movement to the 4th horn. I played it in the rehearsal and the back row (clarinets and bassoons) of the woodwind collapsed with laughter. I turned to the 3rd horn in some consternation but he whispered "it was OK, don't worry, I will tell you later"

And he explained that the week before they had done the same symphony with Sir John in Swansea. It seems that Sir John thought that this note sounded 'rude' on the horns so he always got the bass clarinetist to do it. And of course there is no bass clarinet in that symphony; nor was there one in the rest of the concert so the player in question had had to take the orchestra bus down to Swansea from Manchester just to play that one note! I gather that Sir John also insisted that the 2nd horn solo at the beginning of Delius' Walk to the Paradise Garden was also played by the bass clarinet. Even in 1970 managements must have baulked at paying travel, distance, possibly overnight (and even porterage?) fees for one note and I cannot imagine even Sir John getting away with it now.

[cloughie]

Hmmm! Sorry to go down memory lane again: mention of Sir John and the National Anthem reminds one that he always insisted that the trombone section took part in this - even if they were not needed in the first half of the concert and, indeed, if they were not needed at all! More than once they apparently had to travel somewhere just for 'Queen in G'.

Which takes me on to my very first gig with the Halle (at Harrogate Royal Hall); it was an all-Dvorak concert conducted by Maurice Handford and the symphony was No 8. This was just before Sir John died (I heard that Elgar 1 live from Kings Lynn the week after). I was on 4th horn and the 3rd horn explained that it was standard practice to leave that solo 3rd & 4th horn written low C (so played A for horn in D and D concert pitch) at the opening of the final movement to the 4th horn. I played it in the rehearsal and the back row (clarinets and bassoons) of the woodwind collapsed with laughter. I turned to the 3rd horn in some consternation but he whispered "it was OK, don't worry, I will tell you later"

And he explained that the week before they had done the same symphony with Sir John in Swansea. It seems that Sir John thought that this note sounded 'rude' on the horns so he always got the bass clarinetist to do it. And of course there is no bass clarinet in that symphony; nor was there one in the rest of the concert so the player in question had had to take the orchestra bus down to Swansea from Manchester just to play that one note! I gather that Sir John also insisted that the 2nd horn solo at the beginning of Delius' Walk to the Paradise Garden was also played by the bass clarinet. Even in 1970 managements must have baulked at paying travel, distance, possibly overnight (and even porterage?) fees for one note and I cannot imagine even Sir John getting away with it now.

No need to apologise - a lovely story. I love that Kings Lynn No1! I know others on the forum feel JB’s Elgar Syms are not up to Elgar’s speeds but for me he gets them just right and they were the recordings I got to know!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I fondly remember JB appearing from between them acknowledging the orchestra and his performances of the National Anthem were applause worthy before the concert proper began.

I remember these - what a stunning start they were to any concert. Sir John would conduct the National Anthem with his back to the orchestra, facing the audience - strange when you think about it, but unforgettable.