Ballet music in French grand opera

[Barbirollians]

Should this not be consigned to the dustbin of history ?

Not the music itself which is often very charming but heavens does it hold up the action in what are very long works commonly . Both Faust and Romeo et Juliette both could do without it in performance.

[Master Jacques]

Should this not be consigned to the dustbin of history ?

But the music itself which is often very charming but heavens does it hold up the action in what are very long works commonly . Both Faust and Romeo et Juliette both cold do without it in performance.

No dustbins please! French operatic ballet music is indeed often more charming and interesting than much of what goes on in the main body of the work - I need only mention the Skating Ballet (Les Patineurs) in Meyerbeer's interminable Le prophète (and that's his best work!) I personally find the ballet music in Faust is superb in its own terms, and that particular witching scene is extremely skimpy without it. Nor is such action as there is unduly held up by the delightful curlicues of the Romeo et Juliette ballet.

Add such necessities as the Roman Carnival in Benvenuto Cellini, Verdi's cleverly integrated gypsy-themed ballet for the (otherwise sub-fusc) Paris version of Le trouvère and indeed the extended Venusberg music for Tannhäuser, and we have a treasure trove of wonderful music which is actually part of the dramatic fabric of many of these huge Parisian operas. They - and we - would be much poorer without them, musically and in some cases dramatically too.

[Stanfordian]

Should this not be consigned to the dustbin of history ?
with this first volume
But the music itself which is often very charming but heavens does it hold up the action in what are very long works commonly . Both Faust and Romeo et Juliette both cold do without it in performance.

HiyaBarbirollians,

Consign it to the 'dustbin of history' is your wish but I certainly won't be doing that. It's a valuable part of the genre French Grand Opera and I love the whole experience. There is so much standalone ballet music of the French Romantic era that is waiting to be revived.

[Master Jacques]

There is so much standalone ballet music of the French Romantic era that is waiting to be revived.

Seconded. I would love to see Hérold's La somnambule on stage, for starters (not least for its musical link with Eugene Onegin, of all things!) And Adolphe Adam wrote a mountain of ballet music which - if it's only half as good as Giselle - would be wonderful to hear.

[Stanfordian]

Seconded. I would love to see Hérold's La somnambule on stage, for starters (not least for its musical link with Eugene Onegin, of all things!) And Adolphe Adam wrote a mountain of ballet music which - if it's only half as good as Giselle - would be wonderful to hear.

Hiya Master Jacques,

I couldn't agree more. Hopefully Bru Zane will turn its attention to ballet music.

[Pulcinella]

Being lazy here, as I'm sure I could do some quick research and find out, but contributors here are so knowledgeable that it's my first port of call.


Did (French?) audiences at the time expect ballet sequences in their grand operas?
Were the 'interludes' (for want of a better description) taken seriously, or as an opportunity to wander round?

[Alain Maréchal]

Did (French?) audiences at the time expect ballet sequences in their grand operas?
Were the 'interludes' (for want of a better description) taken seriously, or as an opportunity to wander round?

Expected, yes, certainly. When Wagner revised Tannhauser for Paris he was unwilling to include a ballet, but was advised that without one it would not succeed and possibly not be produced. He compromised by placing the ballet at the beginning of Act 1, so avoiding interrupting the action, but infuriating the members of the Jockey Club de Paris who came to see their "protégées" and expected to dine before arriving for Act 2 or 3.

Verdi wrote one for for Don Carlos, and even managed to devise a plot for it which reflected some of the action of the opera.

Opera in 19th Century Paris was a long and glorious evening.

[LHC]

Expected, yes, certainly. When Wagner revised Tannhauser for Paris he was unwilling to include a ballet, but was advised that without one it would not succeed and possibly not be produced. He compromised by placing the ballet at the beginning of Act 1, so avoiding interrupting the action, but infuriating the members of the Jockey Club de Paris who came to see their "protégées" and expected to dine before arriving for Act 2 or 3.

Verdi wrote one for for Don Carlos, and even managed to devise a plot for it which reflected some of the action of the opera.

Opera in 19th Century Paris was a long and glorious evening.

When the Vienna State Opera put on the original French version of Don Carlo in a production by Peter Konwitschny the ballet sequence was presented as Eboli´s Dream - featuring Eboli´s wishful scenario of herself, pregnant with Carlos child, inviting Philippe and Elisabeth, the happy couple, for dinner while Posa ends up delivering pizzas for them all.

[Alain Maréchal]

When the Vienna State Opera put on the original French version of Don Carlo in a production by Peter Konwitschny the ballet sequence was presented as Eboli´s Dream - featuring Eboli´s wishful scenario of herself, pregnant with Carlos child, inviting Philippe and Elisabeth, the happy couple, for dinner while Posa ends up delivering pizzas for them all.

I knew there was a reason I went to the Opera so infrequently these days!

[Master Jacques]

I knew there was a reason I went to the Opera so infrequently these days!

The Konwitschny Don Carlos has been going since 2001, and is a theatrical classic - only Vienna reacted badly against it, which tells us everything about Vienna and nothing about the show. It keeps every note Verdi wrote for the Paris premiere - not just the ballet, but also some of the magnificent music he cut before the premiere - and is wonderfully imaginative and thought-provoking. Anyone who wants to be stimulated by operatic drama as something other than museum fodder would love it. Here's a review of a recent reincarnation:

https://bachtrack.com/review-don-carlos-konwitschny-cernoch-haroutounian-bretz-staatsoper-hamburg-may-2019

Presenting the ballet as Eboli's dream is taking a cue from Verdi's score, after all. And there's nothing in Konwitchny's scenario for it which is out of place, for any of the characters. It is modern dress, unlike much of the rest of the show, and provides great comic relief in a magnificent production of a major opera. That is how to use French ballet!

[Alain Maréchal]

Anyone who wants to be stimulated by operatic drama as something other than museum fodder would love it.

It is modern dress, unlike much of the rest of the show, and provides great comic relief in a magnificent production of a major opera. That is how to use French ballet!

Thanks for the warning. It had never occurred to me that there was anything remotely humorous in Don Carlos.

[Master Jacques]

Thanks for the warning. It had never occurred to me that there was anything remotely humorous in Don Carlos.

Time you revisited the score, Alain, perhaps. There's plenty of humour - especially surrounding Eboli, and in the first Act too. That's what gives the opera - for many of us - a certain "Shakespearian" quality. We have a choice: either we treat opera as drama, part of our world here and now, or we don't. I know which side I'm on!

[Alain Maréchal]

There's plenty of humour!

Citations please, from the text. It is many years since I saw the work, and it seems unlikely I will want to see it again. Verdi is not high on my list of favourite composers, so a production similar to the one you mentioned will only increase the unease of a long evening in the theatre.

[Master Jacques]

Citations please, from the text. It is many years since I saw the work, and it seems unlikely I will want to see it again. Verdi is not high on my list of favourite composers, so a production similar to the one you mentioned will only increase the unease of a long evening in the theatre.

Ever-ready to oblige, but if Verdi is not high on your list of favourite composers (he is on mine) and you aren't keen to see Don Carlos on stage, there's perhaps little point in providing you with chapter and verse. I don't suppose I would convince you, anyway. But ....

Have a listen to Eboli's 'Song of the Veil' for a start - it could almost be out of Auber's Domino Noir - and the ballet itself ('La peregrina') has a light plot which was wittily choreographed in the original by Lucien Petipa (brother of the more famous Marius). The courtly elegance and lightness of much of the 'Fontainebleau' act is also notable. Nor does the Auto-da-fé scene make its full impact without taking into account the extraordinary jollity and good humour of the crowd, anticipating the 'entertainment' to come. It is even possible to hear and see the great duet for the King and the Inquisitor as having an element of black comedy about it (that is certainly there in Schiller).

Verdi - like Schiller before him - knew that such a mammoth text had to have its light and comedy as well as tragic depths. That's the reason they are both great dramatists, and why this is a great opera rather than a monumental bore.

[Alain Maréchal]

I will take your word for it, although I do recall the veil song, charming but did not realise it was intended to be amusing. I have seen the Opera twice, in French (of course) many years ago. The lighting was gloomy, which at the time seemed strange of for an opera set mostly in Spain. I was not bored, but I found it interminable (four intervals at the Palais Garnier, if memory serves me correctly). The ballet was omitted. I remember the Auto-da-fé was definitely not jolly, and it has unfortunate historical connotations for me, so was unable fully to enthuse.

Have you seen La Kermesse Héroïque? The flashback to The Spanish Fury is a sombre point in a delightful comedy.

Interesting point; La Peregrina was at one point owned by Elizabeth Taylor (Richard Burton bought it for her - a mere trinket), and also appears in Les Perles de la Couronne (Sacha Guitry).