Schmidt symphonies

[Barbirollians]

I have long known only the Fourth in the excellent Welser-Most and Mehta performances.

What a lovely piece the Second Symphony comes across as in the VPO/ Bychkov account - sort of Richard Strauss meets Hollywood.

What are his other symphonies like ?

[Joseph K]

The third is nice, somewhat Schubert-esque.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

What are his other symphonies like ?

Gorgeous - the Fourth is the very best of them all (IMO - something of an obsession with me) but the others are ... well, gorgeous. They may take a couple of hearings to become accustomed to Scmidt's sound world, and his way of developing material, but that's not a bad point, in my book - and the rewards are lifelong. (Similarities with those of Magnard, mentioned elsethread.)

Sinaisky's NAXOS recordings with the Malmo SO are available via youTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJaphtTZ8Z8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdSLMhvnMM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBfizdB1pss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0gkgALP3Bc

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Harold Truscott's study of Schmidt's orchestral Music is available for a not extortionate number of pounds, and contains very good programme notes for the Symphonies:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Music-Franz-Schmidt-Orchestral/dp/0907689124

... as was his wont, Truscott sometimes lets his enthusiasm for referencing obscure composers get in the way of the main point of his Study (in the essay on the Fourth Symphony, he spends a couple of sentences pointing out a similar Tonal device found in the works of Dussek, but completely fails to point out that the thematic material of the Scherzo is the same as that in the preceeding Slow "movement"!) but these niggles are easily outnumbered by the insights. And you get Schmidt's own "Biographical Sketch" (with its peculiar memories of his relationship with VPO leader Arnold Rosé, which sits rather at odds with the photos of Schmidt and Rosé beaming at each other as they shake hands after the premiere of the Fourth) and an introduction by Hans Keller.

[Master Jacques]

Merely to second ferneyhoughgeliebte's commendation of Harold Truscott's book, which is splendidly helpful for all Schmidt's orchestral works, even beyond the four symphonies. As time has gone on, my own favourite has become the 3rd (the first movement has a radiant geniality unlike anything else in late romantic music) rather than the intensely dramatic 4th - but I love all four of them, and find this composer gives endless and ever-deepening pleasure.

The Sinaisky set on Naxos is very good indeed, just outpointing Fabio Luisi's set with the MDR Symphony Orchestra. Both are much preferable to the older sets - though the old Bratislava cycle under Ludovit Rajter has a pioneering excitement about it which is still potent. Avoid the Neeme Järvi set, I think: an oddly slick collection which treats Schmidt as if he were Strauss, and doesn't capture the rich individuality of sound world.

[jayne lee wilson]

Merely to second ferneyhoughgeliebte's commendation of Harold Truscott's book, which is splendidly helpful for all Schmidt's orchestral works, even beyond the four symphonies. As time has gone on, my own favourite has become the 3rd (the first movement has a radiant geniality unlike anything else in late romantic music) rather than the intensely dramatic 4th - but I love all four of them, and find this composer gives endless and ever-deepening pleasure.

The Sinaisky set on Naxos is very good indeed, just outpointing Fabio Luisi's set with the MDR Symphony Orchestra. Both are much preferable to the older sets - though the old Bratislava cycle under Ludovit Rajter has a pioneering excitement about it which is still potent. Avoid the Neeme Järvi set, I think: an oddly slick collection which treats Schmidt as if he were Strauss, and doesn't capture the rich individuality of sound world.

Agreed on almost all counts....the GZ CD issue of the Rajter cycle has a lovely gold-embossed case, making it very collectable for extra-musical reasons.... I would still place it alongside Luisi and Sinaisky though for its idiomatic warmth & sense of adventure. But the Naxos and MDR are, technically, better played and recorded of course.
But if you want to adventure in for a first go, then the Sinaisky is an easily accessible choice....

The 2nd (which began life as a piano sonata - even more shades of Brahms!) is an amazing 50-minute three movement structure, the entire piece effectively an epic set of variations on its original theme.... performed at the Proms not so long ago, & I guess a good place to dive in...
(Lovely one-off of it here...https://www.amazon.co.uk/Schmidt-Sym...y&sr=8-1-spell

Oddly enough I never fell in love with the much vaunted 4th....I find 2 & 3 more appealing now (at least when I'm in the late-Romantic symphonic mood, which isn't often.... I'd probably reach for Magnard first...)

[Jonathan]

I recently bought the Jaarvi recording of the second, liked what I heard so will be buying the other symphonies as well. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I recently bought the Jaarvi recording of the second, liked what I heard so will be buying the other symphonies as well. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance...������

The Sinaisky set (as available on YouTube - links in post #3) is a good place to start. If you enjoyed the Jaarvi, then you may well get on with the rest of his set for the others (I'm not as inclined to dismiss them as is MJ).

[jayne lee wilson]

I recently bought the Jaarvi recording of the second, liked what I heard so will be buying the other symphonies as well. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance...������

If I were you I wouldn't start from here..

Sorry, but N-Järvi is just plain dull really (but then I rarely enjoy any of his (many!) recordings...)....

Sinaisky your best bet for further adventures... very fresh and alive, or Luisi if you want that richer, darker German Radio Orchestra sound....

For just the 2nd see my link to VPO/Bychkov above...

[Barbirollians]

If I were you I wouldn't start from here..

Sorry, but N-Järvi is just plain dull really (but then I rarely enjoy any of his (many!) recordings...)....

Sinaisky your best bet for further adventures... very fresh and alive, or Luisi if you want that richer, darker German Radio Orchestra sound....

For just the 2nd see my link to VPO/Bychkov above...

I definitely like the VPO/Mehta best in the Fourth - sounds like Sinaisky is the man for No 3.

[Jonathan]

Sounds like I've got some investigating to do! Thanks everyone for the recommendations.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I definitely like the VPO/Mehta best in the Fourth

That is also YouTubable:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiz4yHQUhlc

... at over 49mins, it is the slowest performance of the work on record, and 15 minutes longer than the Composer himself is reputed to have taken over the work - but I've always wondered if that reputed "34 minutes" is a typo for "43"? That would be the around the average timing for the other recordings of the work I know. I can cope with Mehta's tempo - and the detail that emerges is remarkable; not to mention the orchestral playing - but wouldn't want to hear it any slower! And the symphonic momentum is better conveyed at the swifter speeds, I feel.

Also on YouTube are a performance conducted by Paavo Jarvi, with the 2xpiano reduction of the score:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hxG76yvpoY

and a Live performance from 2000 by the WDR SO conducted by Kirill Petrenko - which is almost ideal, save for those irritating rallentandi in the Scherzo (like hearing Prospero's speech about the Cloud-capped towers delivered by an actor with hiccups):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDPElQkEX1g

He wisely jettisoned his amendments to the score when performed the work at the Proms with the Berliners last year (but then took the Slow Movement a smidgen too fast for my liking - didn't give the fury and anguish of the Funeral March quite enough time to "grow", I felt).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I've always wondered if that reputed "34 minutes" is a typo for "43"?

A "neat" resolution of my problem - alas, the "reputed" duration of the work in the Composer's hands was 39 minutes. Still a good 10 minutes shorter than Mehta's - a substantial amount of time in a work of this duration.

[BBMmk2]

I don’t know these!

[Conchis]

I heard Bychkov conduct the VPO in the 2nd at a Prom back in 2015. During the pre-performacne talk, we were told that Schmidt is still widely despised in Austria for his ‘ambivalent’ role during the rise of the Nazis and because his music is considered ‘reactionary’.

I don’t understand either charge. I only know the 1st, 2nd and 4th symphonies (the latter, acknowledged as his masterpiece) as well as the Book Of Seven Seals (also great) but I’d be interested in hearing his Norte Dame opera.