CD From Hell: Akademie für Alte Musik Berlin Botches Handel

[Mal]

I stole this title form a Hurwitz review because it expresses my feelings about the Handel that opened Record Review today:

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/cd-from-hell-akademie-fur-alte-musik-berlin-botches-handel/

"This is a distressing release, a performance of genuine ugliness, bereft of style and taste. It raises serious questions about "Historically Informed Performance," and about the ability of modern artists to perform early music with sympathy and understanding."

And Pinnock's Haydn to come...life is suffering...

[rauschwerk]

My only thought on hearing this broadcast excerpt was that AAM/Manze has given me great pleasure these many years, and that this version was nowhere near as good. Personally I didn't care for the inclusion of the optional oboe doubling the violins.

(Don't know what you mean about Pinnock's Haydn, which is magnificent.)

[Master Jacques]

(Don't know what you mean about Pinnock's Haydn, which is magnificent.)

Seconded - a true classic of recorded art, meriting a place on any self-respecting shelf.

[Mal]

(Don't know what you mean about Pinnock's Haydn, which is magnificent.)

Let's just say, you find it magnificent, I do not. I lived with the box set for a few years, trying very hard to like it, but never did take to it. Penguin give it a very mixed review. Pinnock's orchestra sometimes play with panache, as in the example played, but the modest forces (6.5.2.2 strings) sound too thin to me. The sound is too dry and close, the whole set lacks charm, it's often rushed. I replaced it with Fischer's box set and was generally happy with the replacement... though I wan't too happy with his take on 35 so supplemented him with Ward.

[rauschwerk]

One man's rushed is another man's exciting provided the ensemble is tight. I don't give a damn what Penguin thought, frankly.

[Pianoman]

As far as I can make out, the Op.6 featured today is the one Classics Today gave 9/10 for recently, titled 'stylish, vivacious Handel'

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/stylish-vivacious-handel-from-berlin/

Hurwitz himself has made it clear for years what he thinks of HIP, but clearly some of his colleagues don't share that view...

[Richard Barrett]

"This is a distressing release, a performance of genuine ugliness, bereft of style and taste. It raises serious questions about "Historically Informed Performance," and about the ability of modern artists to perform early music with sympathy and understanding."

If I see a review like that from Hurwitz my first thought is "that must be worth listening to!" - apart from anything else he has little sympathy with anything that comes under the heading of HIPP, and I'm not sure why he wastes his time listening to such things and writing in such a pompously dismissive way about them. I guess his favourite sound in the end is that of his own voice.

[Master Jacques]

I lived with the box set for a few years, trying very hard to like it, but never did take to it. Penguin give it a very mixed review. Pinnock's orchestra sometimes play with panache, as in the example played, but the modest forces (6.5.2.2 strings) sound too thin to me.

Those "modest forces" happen to be coincide exactly what the numbers Haydn had available. An orchestra of virtuosi, almost like chamber music. Which is exactly what Pinnock gives us, without unnecessary conductorial "interpretation". Pinnock's musicality is always allied to lack of egotism, which is where its charm and beauty lies. It's a pity that you miss out on those pleasures, but that doesn't mean these are bad performances, as I'm sure you agree.

[Richard Barrett]

Those "modest forces" happen to be coincide exactly what the numbers Haydn had available. An orchestra of virtuosi, almost like chamber music. Which is exactly what Pinnock gives us, without unnecessary conductorial "interpretation". Pinnock's musicality is always allied to lack of egotism, which is where its charm and beauty lies.

Absolutely. I only wish he had recorded all the symphonies. It's often forgotten, even now, that the court "orchestras" of the 18th century had very little in common with the orchestras of the 19th and 20th centuries, and - regardless of what kind of instruments are being used - performing them with massively larger string ensembles is an act of "arrangement" unjustified by anything in the music. But we've been through all this before.

[Richard Barrett]

Personally I didn't care for the inclusion of the optional oboe doubling the violins.

(Don't know what you mean about Pinnock's Haydn, which is magnificent.)

Interestingly though, Pinnock himself also uses the optional oboes in his recording of Handel's op.6. While my own preference was transferred to Manze's set as soon as the latter came out, I like to listen to a version with the oboes now and again. I'm looking forward to hearing this new one, which will get a virtual spin here this evening.

[jayne lee wilson]

I've been listening to the new AAMB Handel OP.6 on Qobuz - sounds stunning to me, but I'm a massive fan of theirs & began collecting their recordings, starting with Telemann, way back in the 1990s. It was revelatory! Telemann became a pop-classic for me. Then CPE Bach... I owe this group so much....the AAMB are one of my musical icons!

Oh, and that amazing Bach album released earlier this year with Isabelle Faust - AAMB having a good 2019!

There are so many more HIPPs Haydn recordings than Pinnock now (modern and authentic, Fey, Antonini etc etc), which I glory in and indulge in deeply...it has been a great & principal joy of this 21st C music-lover - but seems a bit pointless to enthuse about them here in any detail...

(Hurwitz too often expresses critical prejudice rather than consideration - he can't seem to take a step back, see the other side, practice a bit of self-critique...so despite his wide knowledge, his opinions often end up lacking interest or contextual authority...)

[makropulos]

If I see a review like that from Hurwitz my first thought is "that must be worth listening to!" - apart from anything else he has little sympathy with anything that comes under the heading of HIPP, and I'm not sure why he wastes his time listening to such things and writing in such a pompously dismissive way about them. I guess his favourite sound in the end is that of his own voice.

I would certainly urge you to give the Water Music a try –I've just heard it and find myself in complete disagreement with Hurwitz (not for the first time, of course). To my ears, this Water Music is (to mix metaphors) a breath of fresh air.

[BBMmk2]

Andrew Manze, all the way, for me.

[Richard Barrett]

I would certainly urge you to give the Water Music a try –I've just heard it and find myself in complete disagreement with Hurwitz (not for the first time, of course). To my ears, this Water Music is (to mix metaphors) a breath of fresh air.

Yes I will, thanks. My last few Water Music listens have been to the excellent recording by the Zefiro ensemble (which separates the two halves of the Handel with Telemann's related piece) but I'm always up for a new one.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Isn't this the problem of musical criticism? In the end, it's one person's opinion. I do appreciate that he feels the need to stand up and be counted amongst the tidal wave of current fashion, but perhaps he should reflect on the way his reactions are communicated.