I have just acquired the download of Albert Coates/"LSO" version of this work from Pristine Audio. It was recorded in October 1926 and I find that they sing in English! Does anyone know of any other version with English words to the last movement?
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Gordon, there exists a French version as well (by the same translator as Strauss' Salomé [sanctioned by the composer]IIRC), but until your posting I hadn't a clue that there might exist recordings of either of these versions. I never came across one, I'm afraid.Originally posted by Gordon View Post -
Roehre, Ithe Koussevitzky Paris Beethoven 9th on Tahra (1950) is sung in French and it's certainly intriguing. I also have a recording of it in Chinese (on LP), but it's fascinating to learn that Coates used English.Comment
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"Joy" does not fit the 2-syllable "Freude", which is why one English translation uses the word "freedom".Comment
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You're welcome, Roehre! Despite the oddity of being in French, it's a performance that has quite a lot going for it (as you'd imagine) - one of Koussevitzky's very last concerts.Comment
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Coates' translator renders Joy as Gladness, a bit clumsy perhaps?Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
but nearer the meaning of Freude than Freedom! What other words are there in English that mean Joy and have two syllables and, if we are being really fussy, has the important rhetorical and dramatic impact that Freude has in German at that point in the music!? Best stick to the German!!
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Gordon, how about Rapture, which perhaps conveys something of the ecstatic quality that Schiller was thinking of?Comment
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I've just been listening to Stokowski's 1934 recording of Beethoven 9 which is also in English. It was also (apparently) the work's first recording in the USA.
The whole thing is online here (with a separate link to each movement):
(scroll down to find it).
Here's a direct link to just the finale:
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The thoughts of the Schiller Institute suggest that "Freiheit" (Freedom) was what Schiller originally wrote:Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
Ode to Freedom
There is evidence that Schiller originally used the word “freedom” (Freiheit) rather than “joy” (Freude) in the poem that became the subject of the last movement of Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony. This same evidence indicates that the inspiration for the poem was the American Declaration of Independence. “Freedom” was later changed to “joy” because Prussian censorship was fearful of French revolutionary rhetoric. It may be true. If so, it could be an excuse for using “freedom” in this performance of Beethoven’s last symphony. In the end, it would only be an excuse, and not a reason. The truth is that we believe that the work is improved by making “freedom” and not “joy” the focus.
Interestingly Jascha Horenstein gets his Viennese chorus to strongly emphasise the word "fresch" instead of "Streng" on his famous Vox recording at the point
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
thus
Was die Mode fresch geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder,
changing "what fashion (or tradition) strongly divided" to "what fashion (or tradition) newly divided".
So there has often been some questioning of the wording and emphasis which probably helped the English translator. It would appear that at the Berlin Wall Bernstein was only going back to the original Schiller Ode to Freedom.Last edited by Chris Newman; 15-07-11, 12:21.Comment
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Many thanks for inputs various! The use of "freedom" by Schiller as his original idea does seem in keeping with the tenor of the times, and would have appealed to Beethoven too, so the English use of Freedom would be better than Gladness, but there we are.
Thanks for data on Stokowski's version, quite interesting sound quality, as one would expect of these artists at that time but must listen to it all first! Compared to the HMV electrical sound for Coates it's not that different since both would have used the same type of equipment - Western Electric - which both HMV and Columbia used here from before 1925 until it was replaced by Blumlein's royalty free recorder in about 1933. Columbia and HMV were rivals until 1931 when they merged to form EMI.
The Stokowski web site mentions that Coates made another B9 for HMV in 1923 [orchestra not named] but it was an acoustic recording. This would probably have been made at the Hayes studios with reduced forces. In acoustic recordings tubas would have been used to fill out the bass and there is a hint of that in the later electrical one too. The site also says that Weingartner made an electrical recording of B9 for Columbia; this was made at Petty France with the LSO in March 1926. This is in the LSO official discography; I wonder if that was in English too? doesn't seem to be out at present unless there's a downlaod lurking somewhere.
16-17 Mar 1926 Petty France Studios
Miriam Licette (soprano), Muriel Brunskill (contralto),
Hubert Eisdell (tenor), Harold Williams (baritone),
chorus, Felix Weingartner
BEETHOVEN Symphony No.9 in D minor Op.125 “Choral” WAX1350-65
78rpm: (Oct26) L1775-82; set M39 = 67194-01D.
LP: (Jun81) Phoenix ALP1002.
CD: (Dec88) Trax Classique TRXCD125,
(’97) Dante LYS190.
Coates made recordings with the "LSO" including the electrical B9 [at Kingsway Hall and the Queens Hall] but were not official because the LSO was contracted to Columbia between 1920 and 1926 and he had switched to HMV before 1925. HMV and Coates hired LSO players individually which explains why some of the Coates recordings aren't listed in the main part of LSO discography, the B9 is in an annexe but it doesn't list the one of 1923.Comment
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It is available free to subscribers of Pristine's PADA.Originally posted by Gordon View PostComment
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The 1923 Coates recording - probably the first complete Beethoven 9 on record - I heard a few years ago. It is indeed in English, and it's something of a curio. Christopher Dyment's Coates discography in "Recorded Sound" states that the choir included just 8 singers - 2 sopranos (Valli, Trenton), 2 contraltos (Walker, Peel), 2 tenors (Wilde, Cotham), and 2 basses (Halland, Hubbard) - along with the four soloists - Mme. Salteni-Mochi, Edna Thornton, Frank Webster and George Baker.Comment
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Apropos my last message (#10), Roehre has kindly pointed out a misconception about my hearing Jascha Horenstein use "fresch" in the Schiller Ode. He has informed me that I had been hearing "frech" pronounced in the Viennese (or Berlin) manner. This makes a lot of difference as it means impudently or insolently and is also slang. I am very grateful to Roehre as I like the original Ode even more now. It was clearly liberating stuff.Comment
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Didn't Lenny Bernstein change that when he did that 'celebratory' concert, with combined forces after the Berlin Wall came down?Don’t cry for me
I go where music was born
J S Bach 1685-1750Comment
I'm afraid I've got to google better 
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