16.02.19 - Berlioz 5 essential works in must-have recordings

[Conchis]

Orchestral players of my acquaintance have been known to express their contempt for Tchaikovsky, probably more than any other composer of that level of popularity.

I recall a harpist once telling me that, while Elgar may have been a great composer, he was a 'lousy orchestrator'. She contrasted him with Saint-Saens who, in her opinion, was an orchestrator without equal but who 'couldn't write a tune to save his life.'

I would imagine most are heartily sick of Dvorak 9.

[Mal]

Isn’t there some music that audiences like more than the orchestral players do. I remember one discussing with an orchestra viola player how much I liked Sibelius tone poems and his response was to the the efffect they were quite tedious to play.

When isn't the viola tedious to play? :) (Sorry couldn't resist...)

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/instruments/viola/viola-jokes/in-tune/

To get the thread back on track:

What is the longest viola joke?
Harold in Italy

[Barbirollians]

Orchestral players of my acquaintance have been known to express their contempt for Tchaikovsky, probably more than any other composer of that level of popularity.

I recall a harpist once telling me that, while Elgar may have been a great composer, he was a 'lousy orchestrator'. She contrasted him with Saint-Saens who, in her opinion, was an orchestrator without equal but who 'couldn't write a tune to save his life.'

I would imagine most are heartily sick of Dvorak 9.

Which just goes to show that orchestral musicians can talk as much nonsense as the rest of us.

[cloughie]

Which just goes to show that orchestral musicians can talk as much nonsense as the rest of us.

But then you are a listener and not a player - a different view?

[Stanfordian]

Orchestral players of my acquaintance have been known to express their contempt for Tchaikovsky, probably more than any other composer of that level of popularity.

I recall a harpist once telling me that, while Elgar may have been a great composer, he was a 'lousy orchestrator'. She contrasted him with Saint-Saens who, in her opinion, was an orchestrator without equal but who 'couldn't write a tune to save his life.'

I would imagine most are heartily sick of Dvorak 9.

I was once disappointed to discover that an orchestral player I knew wasn't as interested in music as I was and considered his playing as a job to earn money. And why not!

[kea]

None of the orchestral musicians I know ever listen to classical music outside of work, which always seemed a bit odd to me but I guess I'm not one. A bit disconcerting to be on a train accompanied by orchestral musicians heatedly discussing the merits of the latest Lana Del Rey single though.

Roméo et Juliette - until François-Xavier Roth & Les Siècles turn their live performance into a studio recording, will recommend Robin Ticciati & the Swedish Radio Symphony Orchestra
Grande messe des morts - can't say I've ever been satisfied with a recording but probably Colin Davis & the LSO and Chorus is good enough to start with
Les nuits d'été - Véronique Gens & the Lyon Opera Orchestra
Symphonie fantastique - François-Xavier Roth & Les Siècles, probably
Free space for an opera since I haven't heard any of them yet

[jayne lee wilson]

When isn't the viola tedious to play? :) (Sorry couldn't resist...)

https://www.classicfm.com/discover-music/instruments/viola/viola-jokes/in-tune/

To get the thread back on track:

What is the longest viola joke?
Harold in Italy

Don't know how playing the viola feels, but it's never tedious to LISTEN to, if Yuri Bashmet is playing ...

I love, or loved, Harold in Italy, just a shame that I listened to it too often back in the day... loved it to death, I guess. (Though the Roth is still waiting patiently in my Qobuz New Releases...).

Berlioz can have that addictive quality; the passion burns fiercely, then fades... which is why I listen to the music rarely now. I occasionally think about some "movements from" from with great fondness though: especially the Offertorium from the Grande Messe...

If I leave it long enough (and live long enough), the Berlioz-Phoenix may arise...

[verismissimo]

My must-have Berlioz:

L'enfance du Christ: Elsie Morison, Peter Pears, John Cameron, Joseph Rouleau, Goldsbrough Orch, Colin Davis (1960).

[Mal]

I agree Jayne.

I also love Harold in Italy, and much viola playing; all viola jokes are really ironic, professional viola players are talented musicians, it's just they tend to get overlooked. And the viola players give as good as they get:

"Why are viola jokes so short?"
"So Violinists can remember them."

"Why is the violin smaller than the viola?"
"It's an optical illusion. They’re actually the same size and appear smaller because the violinist’s heads are so much larger."

https://www.violinist.com/blog/fiddleheads/20071/6425/

"No matter how bleak the plight of the violist may be, the viola is still an absolute necessity in orchestral and string ensemble playing. You can’t play a symphony without the viola section. Oh sure, you can draft some third violinists to play the part, but they can’t play the low notes and get that throaty viola tone..."

[mikealdren]

Orchestral players of my acquaintance have been known to express their contempt for Tchaikovsky, probably more than any other composer of that level of popularity.

I recall a harpist once telling me that, while Elgar may have been a great composer, he was a 'lousy orchestrator'. She contrasted him with Saint-Saens who, in her opinion, was an orchestrator without equal but who 'couldn't write a tune to save his life.'

I would imagine most are heartily sick of Dvorak 9.

I'm amazed she didn't think Saint Saens could write a tune, I think he was a very tuneful composer. As to Elgar's orchestration, his string writing is superb, can't comment on the harp parts though.

The late Martin Milner (the very fine Hallé leader) had an agreement that he never played in concerts with Tchaikovsky symphonies, he had just played them too often.

[pastoralguy]

The late Martin Milner (the very fine Hallé leader) had an agreement that he never played in concerts with Tchaikovsky symphonies, he had just played them too often.

I'm always amazed when I come across these arrangements since all jobs have a degree of repetition about them. ('I can't possibly deal with patients who are complaining of chest pains. I've just dealt with too many...'. Said no medical person EVER! (Hopefully!!))

[cloughie]

I'm always amazed when I come across these arrangements since all jobs have a degree of repetition about them. ('I can't possibly deal with patients who are complaining of chest pains. I've just dealt with too many...'. Said no medical person EVER! (Hopefully!!))

Well he was probably relieved that Michael Davis (for many years the equally fine co leader) did not have the same problem.

[pastoralguy]

Well he was probably relieved that Michael Davis (for many years the equally fine co leader) did not have the same problem.

Whatever happened to Michael Davis? I know he led the BBC Symphony after leaving the London Symphony Orchestra but he seemed to disappear.

[Maclintick]

especially the Offertorium from the Grande Messe...

That Offertorium is an invention of genius...a tragic march foreshadowing GM.
L'Enfance du Christ
Roméo et Juliette
Le Carnaval Romain

My appreciation falters, after those...sorry, haven't quite made it to 5...

[Conchis]

I was once disappointed to discover that an orchestral player I knew wasn't as interested in music as I was and considered his playing as a job to earn money. And why not!

This gives me the excuse to repeat my favourite George Szell story, as recounted by John Culshaw in Putting The Record Straight:

Szell's Decca contract was up for renewal and Maurice Rosengarten was hoping to get one over on him. But Szell breezed into the meeting, sat down and, before Rosengarten had a chance to speak, said: 'Mr. Rosengarten - I have known you for many years as a man of culture and a man of enlightenment . A man with thoroughly civilised values who believes in the life of the mind . I, by contrast, am a simple businessman whose only concern is money. Here are my terms which, needless to add, are not subject to negotiation.'

Rosengarten was so winded that Szell got exactly what he wanted.