Unsuccessful Partnerships

[richardfinegold]

I thought perhaps a companion thread exploring unsuccessful pairings might be interesting. After all, not all couplings are made in heaven. The divorce rate here is over 50%. I'll start with 3 local examples involving the Chicago SO
1) Artur Rodzinski lasted one season here in the 1940s. I am not sure if it was here or New York -,where he lasted 4 seasons, where he became notorious for carrying a loaded pistol into rehearsals. That certainly would keep those quarrelsome musicians from being mouthy.
2) Rafael Kubelik lasted about 3 years here in the 1950s before yielding to Fritz Reiner. His main failing was in somehow alienating Chicago Tribune Critic Claudia "Acidy" Cassiday. The pairing did result in some outstanding recordings, contained on volume 1 of the big Mercury rerelease box, particularly an electrifying Pictures.
3) Jean Martinon had an unhappy tenure sandwiched between Reiner and Solti. He also fell afoul of Cassiday but more importantly lost in a showdown with star Oboist Ray Still, who was a stellar player but who was once described to be by CSO President Henry Fogel as a miserable human being. Martinon tried to fire Still who effectively tuned the tables and got his nominal boss fired instead. At least that was a victory for Labor. This pairing also resulted in some stunning recordings, particularly Ravel and a Nielsen Fourth

[Beef Oven!]

Mourinho & United
Van Git & United
Moyes & United



(What yardstick we using?)

Levine & The Met
Dutoit & Montreal

???

[richardfinegold]

Mourinho & United
Van Git & United
Moyes & United



(What yardstick we using?)

Levine & The Met
Dutoit & Montreal

???

Levine and his Met Orchestra got along pretty well, despite proclivities being well known. Dutoit and Montrealers certainly did end very acrimoniously, despite years of success, a true bitter divorce after a long marriage and years before he became a Me Two poster boy. Karajan and the BPO also ended acrimoniously despite decades of outstanding success.
I was thinking more along the lines of Alan Gilbert and the New York Phil, or wMehta and Barbirolli with the same Orchestra

[cloughie]

Levine and his Met Orchestra got along pretty well, despite proclivities being well known. Dutoit and Montrealers certainly did end very acrimoniously, despite years of success, a true bitter divorce after a long marriage and years before he became a Me Two poster boy. Karajan and the BPO also ended acrimoniously despite decades of outstanding success.
I was thinking more along the lines of Alan Gilbert and the New York Phil, or wMehta and Barbirolli with the same Orchestra

The Barbirolli case is interesting, as you mentioned the unsuccessful Rodzinski in the introductory posting - Rodz was preferred to Barbirolli, who came back to UK, and rebuilt the Halle from very little to a great orchestra.

[MickyD]

I seem to recall the Gardiner/Vienna Philharmonic relationship as being very short-lived.

[cloughie]

I seem to recall the Gardiner/Vienna Philharmonic relationship as being very short-lived.

Welser-Most and the LPO goes down as ‘worse than most!’ but, apparently, he’s been a great success at Cleveland BUT is the Cleveland the orchestra it was under Szell, Maazel or Dohnanyi?

[HighlandDougie]

Welser-Most and the LPO goes down as ‘worse than most!’ but, apparently, he’s been a great success at Cleveland BUT is the Cleveland the orchestra it was under Szell, Maazel or Dohnanyi?

The last time I heard this combination was in the Salle Pleyel a couple of years ago - the orchestral playing in DSCH’s 8th was pretty much as good as it gets.

[Dave2002]

Levine & The Met
Dutoit & Montreal

Were these not actually successful pairings - as judged by results, though with undesirable "undercurrents" which were kept hidden for many years and which would appear to have been upsetting (very) at least for those involved?

Leonard Slatkin and the BBC orchestra didn't seem to get on well, though some of Slatkin's recordings are really good.

[Petrushka]

Simon Rattle famously failed to gell with the Concertgebouw and, although it's a different generation of players now, they've never, as far as I know, asked him back.

[Pianoman]

Bernstein and the BBC.....?

[Barbirollians]

I always understood that it was two leading critics rather than the orchestra that did not get on with Barbirolli . The NYPO invited him back in 1959 and as I recall reading it was a very happy reunion . Barbirolli had been asked to stay on for a section of concerts but Rodzinski was going to get more of the concerts and be the chief conductor so Barbirolli was very receptive when the call to rescue the Halle came.

The orchestra as distinct from the management and the audiences did not wish to see Barbirolli go and Rodzinski sounds like a dreadful martinet and did not last long .

[richardfinegold]

The last time I heard this combination was in the Salle Pleyel a couple of years ago - the orchestral playing in DSCH’s 8th was pretty much as good as it gets.

Cleveland and FWM came through here a couple of years ago and played a Bruckner Symphony. The playing was indeed impressive if not the overall interpretation. What is interesting to me is that FWM is so well entrenched that he was able to get the Music Critic for The Cleveland Plain Dealer fired for unfavorable reviews, a reversal of the Claudia Cassiday scenarios here

[richardfinegold]

The Concertgebouw and Danielle Gatti were off to a very rocky start even before Gatti MeTwo problems hit.

[richardfinegold]

Bernstein and the BBC.....?

Indeed. Bernstein and the VPO didn’t start well either, with the VPO Concertmaster informing him that Mahler was Scheiss Music. They seemed to progress from that low point, however

[Conchis]

The Welser-Most/LPO partnership barely got off the starting block, which was a shame as the recorded results are impressive (particularly an excellent Schmidt 4). I'm glad FWM has got a decent power-base in Cleveland and I like the idea of him getting the critic fired. I would like a London conductor to work similar magic on the execrable Andrew Clements...

The BBSCO and Leonard Slatkin didn't exactly hate each other, but they clearly didn't gel and Slatkin was gone after a mere five years.

The Sinopoli/Philiharmonia relationship was problematic, as it worked wonders via the magic DG contract and in Japan, but the players didn't seem to care much for GS - yet he stayed in place, presumably because he was making them a lot of money (and I'm a Sinopoli fan, btw).

Solti had long and productive relationships with several major orchestras (Chicago SO/LPO/VPO) but doesn't seem to have been liked by any of those bands. But he was sales/box office gold, so the players put up with him.