SACDs - are they now "dead"?

[vinteuil]

On the VERY rare occasions I play that disc I simply get on my hands and knees and switch the cable around. However, the last time I did I forgot to change them back and spent a couple of days using the Hi-Fi without noticing!

... wouldn't it be easier to turn your chair through 180 degrees, and face away from the speakers?


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[Beresford]

SACD is relatively popular in Japan, evidently.
And there is Extended Play, which enables over 4 hours of SACD quality stereo on one disc, if you are willing to exclude the 80 minute CD layer.

https://positive-feedback.com/Issue41/sacd.htm

Any recommendations for a good quality second-hand SACD player to replace my ageing Musical Fidelity CD player- not Pioneer (don't like the sound)?

[HighlandDougie]

One thing that might keep the SACD format treading water is the general compatibility of such discs with standard CD player. Unlike DVD-A and Blu-ray Audio, there is no need for a separate player to get at least CD quality sound out of the disc. That said, with the effective death of DVD-A, Blu-ray Audio is the only high resolution challenge to SACD, and it offers both more channels and higher resolution potential. The issue of several disc sets comprising both CDs and Blu-ray Audio content might encourage greater uptake of Blu-ray as a playback alternative to CD. The Berliner Philharmoniker's own label offerings also tend to include downloads at various levels of audio definition.

Universal are really getting in on the act with box sets of, for example, Kubelik's DG Mahler cycle, Kempff's Schubert and the Amadeus in the complete LvB cycle, all with a Blu-Ray Audio disc. Which suckers like me can't resist (the Kubelik is a wonder). But I also cannot resist SACDs (all of the set-ups in the two countries seem to contain SACD players, from the original Sony onwards) - and to answer Nick, you simply have to listen, especially to multi-channel SACD, to appreciate the difference. But, even in 2-channel mode, there is an audible improvement between, say, Karajan's DGG BPO Sibelius 4th as an SHM-CD and as an SACD. So, for me the combination of SACD and Japanese re-masterings (the Sony Japan Szell boxes of Beethoven, Brahms and Mahler - which now sit alongside the - bargain-buy - big Szell box; Tower Records Vintage Collection (mostly ex Decca/DG); Tower Records Definition Series (ex-EMI); and, the holy of holies, Esoteric re-releases) are an excuse for utterly unjustifiable financial profligacy - hey, what's wrong with eating grass when you can have that Esoteric SACD of Maria-Joao Pires playing Mozart Piano Sonatas? And, to answer Beresford, I bought a Marantz SACD player on e-Bay last year with which I'm very happy as a replacement for a Naim CD player.

[Dave2002]

... wouldn't it be easier to turn your chair through 180 degrees, and face away from the speakers?


.

Pantomime time .... "they're behind you" ....

[teamsaint]

The XTC re releases are slightly doing my head in, due to my lack of a blu ray player.
Hopefully the players will drop in price faster than the re releases go up .
Anybody got any of them ?

[jayne lee wilson]

My audition of SACD some years ago, mainly with an Arcam CD37, left me unconvinced; I preferred the same recording played from 24/96 pcm download, or CD itself from the Krell KAV-300 (a classic 20x8 affair). But this all depends on individual kit, as the DAC geometry can vary widely within the SACD player itself, and not all of them keep the DSD/PCM chain of reproduction separate. You have to do that to really hear DSD's own properties, largely down to the simpler filtering arrangements, and cheaper machines will often not do it - there'll be compromise and thus SACD and CD will sound very similar.

There's also the intractable problem of many SACDs being made from 24/96 or 24/48 etc PCM masters - and not often stating this on the disc notes. Rather like LPs made from digital masters..... just what are you actually listening to?

These concerns, my own audition and many HiFiNews reviews commenting on how "polite" SACD sounded (to its own detriment compared to PCM); and then the burgeoning of hi-res downloads, and now hi-res streaming, has led to my loss of interest in the medium. (Having said that, more recent reviews of DACs playing back DSD downloads (e.g. Benchmark) appear to show an improvement in the purer realisations of the medium).

No to mention the extraordinary computer-audio driven developments of DACs themselves in the last 10 years, where the innovations in filter design, and the offer of switchable filters to adjust sound to suit a given recording, room, system, or your own ears, has put CD on a high level of quality. Beautiful and flexible.
My own T&A DAC8 has 4 filters, three of which I use fairly regularly although I do have a favourite Bezier pure impulse response, minimum-phase option. (Again, this tends to make me feel SACD is redundant, although it seems to have its own stable niche, remains an enjoyable option for some (yet another choice...). The DAC also offers phase inversion on the remote, not that I use it much...

Multi-CH SACD - whole other story.....

[Bryn]

The XTC re releases are slightly doing my head in, due to my lack of a blu ray player.
Hopefully the players will drop in price faster than the re releases go up .
Anybody got any of them ?

Might have.

[teamsaint]

Might have.

i’m not going to ask if they are worth buying, because they aren’t terribly spensive, but how would you rate them ?

BTW, have you read APs book Complicated Game ? I can really recommend it.

[Bryn]

i’m not going to ask if they are worth buying, because they aren’t terribly spensive, but how would you rate them ?

BTW, have you read APs book Complicated Game ? I can really recommend it.

All five are very fine. The surround mixes work well and the stereo mixes old and new all add to the attraction. I got Complicated Game from Wordery, 30 months ago. It is indeed a good read. As to Blu-ray players, even the fairly basic ones have something to offer. To some extent it depends on what they feed. With an HDMI feed to a decent surround amp., the amp's DACs should offer at least reasonable analogue output to the speakers. Though my main Blu-ray deck is an Oppo, I also have a Panasonic UB 429 which I got from a bargain bin (literally) at Curry PC World for less than £90, though it did come unboxed and wthout remote control. It performs very well and has 4k compatibility.

[richardfinegold]

There are approximately 3000 SACD Classical titles available from Arkiv Music. Presto seems to offer quite a few. Classical has kept SACD viable, but how much longer, with all silver discs being endangered, is anyone’s guess. I just received a Pentatone album of Bartok, the CFO and MFSPC, both with the Boston SO conducted by Ozawa and Kubelik, unreleased DG Quad recordings from the 1970s. The spatial effects in both pieces are spectacularly reproduced . Long May SACDs reign

[Dave2002]

.... Esoteric re-releases are an excuse for utterly unjustifiable financial profligacy - hey, what's wrong with eating grass when you can have that Esoteric SACD of Maria-Joao Pires playing Mozart Piano Sonatas?

Mmmm. You seem to want to justify the unjustifiable - with an excuse. Maybe eating too much grass has that effect.

[teamsaint]

All five are very fine. The surround mixes work well and the stereo mixes old and new all add to the attraction. I got Complicated Game from Wordery, 30 months ago. It is indeed a good read. As to Blu-ray players, even the fairly basic ones have something to offer. To some extent it depends on what they feed. With an HDMI feed to a decent surround amp., the amp's DACs should offer at least reasonable analogue output to the speakers. Though my main Blu-ray deck is an Oppo, I also have a Panasonic UB 429 which I got from a bargain bin (literally) at Curry PC World for less than £90, though it did come unboxed and wthout remote control. It performs very well and has 4k compatibility.

Thanks for all that info.

[Dave2002]

The XTC re releases are slightly doing my head in, due to my lack of a blu ray player.
Hopefully the players will drop in price faster than the re releases go up .
Anybody got any of them ?

In my ignorance I thought XTC might be a record label.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTC

Presumably AP mentioned by Bryn is Andy Partridge. Not really my scene - but ...

Looks like the newer releases are Blu Ray - and some are listed here - https://burningshed.com/store/ape

[Bryn]

In my ignorance I thought XTC might be a record label.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTC

Presumably AP mentioned by Bryn is Andy Partridge. Not really my scene - but ...

Looks like the newer releases are Blu Ray - and some are listed here - https://burningshed.com/store/ape

Actually, it was teamsaint who used Mr. Partridge's initials. The "newer releases" comprise re-mixes of the multi-track masters of old albums and their associated recorded material, both in surround and 2 channel stereo. The CDs in the packages are of new 2 channel stereo re-mixes. The Blu-rays have multiple mixes and some video items. Some multi-track masters have gone missing, so only five XTC albums have had Blu-ray releases, though Big Express and English Settlement are available in re-mixed 2 channel CD versions made during the current decade (not to be confused with the earlier "re-mastered" versions on the Virgin label).

[teamsaint]

Actually, it was teamsaint who used Mr. Partridge's initials. The "newer releases" comprise re-mixes of the multi-track masters of old albums and their associated recorded material, both in surround and 2 channel stereo. The CDs in the packages are of new 2 channel stereo re-mixes. The Blu-rays have multiple mixes and some video items. Some multi-track masters have gone missing, so only five XTC albums have had Blu-ray releases, though Big Express and English Settlement are available in re-mixed 2 channel CD versions made during the current decade (not to be confused with the earlier "re-mastered" versions on the Virgin label).

Perhaps we should asl Lordgeous if he knows where the masters for Big Express are......

Actually looking round the web, it looks like that may be WIP.

Mummer hasn’t been done ( and what a great album it is) I think. the masters seem to be missing for that also.