SACDs - are they now "dead"?

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  • Dave2002
    Full Member
    • Dec 2010
    • 18025

    SACDs - are they now "dead"?

    I noticed a query on another site about SACDs - whether they were worth bothering with, or even available, and whether it's worth buying an SACD player. The general opinion there seemed to be that they'd almost sunk without trace - except for classical - and not worth worrying further about. Probably people who've started streaming so called "hi-res" masters may not be concerned either, but there might still be some who are interest in SACD as a format.

    Looking at a few other threads round here - Menuhin and the Bargains thread I happened to notice that on the Big Box of Russian music there's a performance of Tchaikovsky violin concerto - with Menuhin and Zino Vinnikov. I sampled this out of interest in the violinist - and then tried to find out who the conductor - Vinnikov - was/is. Turns out that he isn't the conductor on that recording - Menuhin is, with Vinnikov as the violinist .

    Looking at the CD cover it's possibly one we have - from the Tring/RPO series - now long gone.

    Howver, checking further it shows up again on Membran as an SACD.I had thought that Membran were largely distributors of older recordings, generally cheapish, and not really "into" SACD and newer formats. However there are several pages of Membran listings of SACDs - see here - https://www.sa-cd.net/alltitles2/353/2 and specifically selecting the format, the ones llsted here definitely show up as SACD.

    Perhaps these might still be useful for anyone wanting multi-channel versions. It is possible that the audio isn't "proper" multi-channel surround - though the amazon reviews of some of these suggests that whatever was done to make multi-channel versions has worked, and is rather good. However, the current pricing might be prohibitive.
  • visualnickmos
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 3610

    #2
    Quite possibly, they are. I don't have a SACD player, but I would have thought that if one has a reasonable hi-fi, the 'need' for SACD is negated, the difference in quality, being what exactly?

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    • Dave2002
      Full Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 18025

      #3
      Originally posted by visualnickmos View Post
      Quite possibly, they are. I don't have a SACD player, but I would have thought that if one has a reasonable hi-fi, the 'need' for SACD is negated, the difference in quality, being what exactly?
      Arguably some SACDs on good SACD players sound better, though in recent years some suggest that CDs on very good CD players sound as good or better. The other aspect of SACDs is multi-channel - which CDs do not do.

      That could be very good for some recordings. I was recently at a choral concert which was superb, and the choir moved around the audience. That's not an effect you could get from 2 channel CDs. Doing multi-channel audio by downloads or streaming could be just too much of a technical challenge at the current time.

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      • Keraulophone
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 1946

        #4
        I remember a demo of Sony's first SACD player in a small but packed room at a Bristol HiFi show some years ago. It really did sound as though the proverbial veil had been lifted compared with the same track on CD. Ever since then I've tried to acquire an SACD version if available, which became a lot harder when Universal stopped releasing them. The 3-track SACDs that reproduced the centre channel from the Decca 'tree' used in some classic Mercury and RCA recordings were particularly welcome. Luckily, some of the smaller companies like Pentatone, BIS and Chandos (to some extent) have remained faithful to the format, which saw off DVD-A over ten years ago. The rise of 'studio master' quality downloads and especially Blu-ray Audio would seem to herald SADC's eventual demise, while DSD itself seems likely to live on.

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        • Keraulophone
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 1946

          #5
          Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
          there are several pages of Membran listings of SACDs
          Prices of these ex-Tring recordings with the RPO vary wildly between a fiver and £22.73 for Frank Shipway's Mahler 5. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000AAVC...cdinfocom08-21 IIRC, some were recommended as bargain versions in the later incarnations of the Penguin Record Guide.

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          • PJPJ
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1461

            #6
            Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
            I noticed a query on another site about SACDs - whether they were worth bothering with, or even available, and whether it's worth buying an SACD player.
            No. They are not dead by any means.

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            • Eine Alpensinfonie
              Host
              • Nov 2010
              • 20570

              #7
              Not dead, but not thriving either.

              But I love them. I have an Elgar Miniatures disc that has extra items that are not on the CD layer, owing to differing maximum lengths of CD and SACD.

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              • Bryn
                Banned
                • Mar 2007
                • 24688

                #8
                One thing that might keep the SACD format treading water is the general compatibility of such discs with standard CD player. Unlike DVD-A and Blu-ray Audio, there is no need for a separate player to get at least CD quality sound out of the disc. That said, with the effective death of DVD-A, Blu-ray Audio is the only high resolution challenge to SACD, and it offers both more channels and higher resolution potential. The issue of several disc sets comprising both CDs and Blu-ray Audio content might encourage greater uptake of Blu-ray as a playback alternative to CD. The Berliner Philharmoniker's own label offerings also tend to include downloads at various levels of audio definition.

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                • pastoralguy
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 7766

                  #9
                  I do try to buy SACDs as much as possible. Not for the equipment I have now but in anticipation of the time when Mrs. PG and I win the lottery and I can spend obscene amounts of moolah on Hi-Fi components! To be honest, I don't hear a huge difference between SACD and regular cd but I suspect that's because I don't really have the correct equipment to reproduce it on.

                  I did get excited and bought a few of the EMI SACDs of core repertoire including the classic du Pre / Janet Baker Elgar disc and Oistrakh playing the Brahms Concerto with Szell which, alas, distorted as much as my previous LP, cassette Tape and cd had. My problem is that I do have a comparatively inexpensive SONY SACD machine which doesn't reproduce the discs as well as my Quad CD player.

                  Problems, problems...

                  Which reminds me that Mrs. PG bought me a rare copy of Solti's Bartok SACD with the LSO in New York a few years ago. Alas, the channels are the wrong way round so the fiddles come out of the right speaker etc...

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                  • Dave2002
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2010
                    • 18025

                    #10
                    Originally posted by pastoralguy View Post
                    Which reminds me that Mrs. PG bought me a rare copy of Solti's Bartok SACD with the LSO in New York a few years ago. Alas, the channels are the wrong way round so the fiddles come out of the right speaker etc...
                    I often wonder why amps don’t have a switch to reverse the channels, and perhaps also the phasing of stereo channels. Should be trivial. Also for digital could be very easy to do, for example in the CD or SACD player.

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                    • pastoralguy
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7766

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                      I often wonder why amps don’t have a switch to reverse the channels, and perhaps also the phasing of stereo channels. Should be trivial. Also for digital could be very easy to do, for example in the CD or SACD player.
                      On the VERY rare occasions I play that disc I simply get on my hands and knees and switch the cable around. However, the last time I did I forgot to change them back and spent a couple of days using the Hi-Fi without noticing!

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                      • Bryn
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 24688

                        #12
                        ... the channels are the wrong way round so the fiddles come out of the right speaker etc...
                        If the violins were coming from the wrong speaker, your our criticism would be justified, but as they sounded from the right speaker...

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                        • pastoralguy
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 7766

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                          If the violins were coming from the wrong speaker, your our criticism would be justified, but as they sounded from the right speaker...

                          Comment

                          • Dave2002
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 18025

                            #14
                            Originally posted by pastoralguy View Post
                            On the VERY rare occasions I play that disc I simply get on my hands and knees and switch the cable around. However, the last time I did I forgot to change them back and spent a couple of days using the Hi-Fi without noticing!
                            Oh what a fiddle ...!

                            Comment

                            • pastoralguy
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 7766

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                              Oh what a fiddle ...!
                              Well, a good excuse to clean away the dust...

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