Five Essential Elgar Recordings - your five?

[ahinton]

Are we bothered?

Many other of us would manage 10 or 20!

Well, I'm not personally, no...

[Barbirollians]

Hmmm! I remember playing in a performance of the Elgar concerto with 'Nige' at the University of York. At the conclusion, 'Nige' responded to the conductor's proffered hand not with a shake but by pretending to spit on his own hand and then engaging the conductor in a 'high five'. The reaction of the orchestra (which had a high proportion then of young and trendy professionals) including myself was "wonderful violinist but what a pillock!" To an extent I still think that but, looking at history, would Elgar and W.H. Reed, if looking down from on high, regard this as a 'jape' and laugh with 'Nige'?

I thought wonderful violinist but what a pillock was what the whole world thought of Nige !

Remember the Fast Show sketch in which a Nice like figure starts playing at jazz club and then it morphs into the Four Seasons.

[Roslynmuse]

On listening to Kate Kennedy's broadcast list, I nearly bit my tongue off when she constantly talked about The Dream of Jerontius, and how gid it was.

Do we have any evidence that either Newman or Elgar pronounced it (Gerontius) with a hard 'G'? It's one of those words that I saw written down before I heard anyone say it and, by analogy with 'geriatric' and other words with the same root, in my head it was always 'jer...'

My church Latin is Italianate rather than Catholic which maybe also informed my mental pronunciation.

[Roslynmuse]

I thought wonderful violinist but what a pillock was what the whole world thought of Nige !

Remember the Fast Show sketch in which a Nice like figure starts playing at jazz club and then it morphs into the Four Seasons.

I saw him play the Elgar in Liverpool in 1987 - great performance spoiled by a trivial encore (something ragtime, I think) that completely ruined the mood. A Paganini caprice would have been bad enough () but this was just unforgivable. When I hear him play so fantastically, as he often does, I wonder what loose screw there is that makes him do things that mean he is not taken as seriously as he deserves.

[Pabmusic]

Do we have any evidence that either Newman or Elgar pronounced it (Gerontius) with a hard 'G'? It's one of those words that I saw written down before I heard anyone say it and, by analogy with 'geriatric' and other words with the same root, in my head it was always 'jer...'

My church Latin is Italianate rather than Catholic which maybe also informed my mental pronunciation.

I don't think we do. It's a Latinised Greek word, and the root (geras) gives us geriatric, gerontology and other 'old' expressions, all with a soft g.

[cloughie]

I don't think we do. It's a Latinised Greek word, and the root (geras) gives us geriatric, gerontology and other 'old' expressions, all with a soft g.

I know that the English language is a law unto itself, but very often a ‘g’after an ‘e’ is a soft g. I have no problems with Gerontius being Jerontius - do not spell that way or it is in danger of becoming Yerontius

[Pabmusic]

I know that the English language is a law unto itself, but very often a ‘g’after an ‘e’ is a soft g. I have no problems with Gerontius being Jerontius - do not spell that way or it is in danger of becoming Yerontius

I agree, but remember that Newman made up the name and, as a good early Victorian classicist, would have thought of the Greek root having a soft g.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I agree, but remember that Newman made up the name and, as a good early Victorian classicist, would have thought of the Greek root having a soft g.

But would Elgar? (Genuine question, as I don't know; but it's his work - not Newman's - that matters to me.)

[Pabmusic]

But would Elgar? (Genuine question, as I don't know; but it's his work - not Newman's - that matters to me.)

I don't know either. He knew the Catholic Mass - but that would have been in Latin, not English. He was bright and inquisitive, so he probably knew something of Classical Greek pronunciation. But 'Gerontius' is Latinised - so the question seems to be, "Did 19th-century RC Latin have a hard G?" And I have no idea, though I suspect not, since much seems to have been in old pronunciation. I recall that James Hilton's Goodbye Mr Chips laments the onset of "Weynee, Weedee, Weekee".

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But would Elgar? (Genuine question, as I don't know; but it's his work - not Newman's - that matters to me.)

I do recall several sources that state that the G is hard in Gerontius. In the Record Review interview, Andrew McGregor consistently used the hard G, as Kate Kennedy was equally consistent with the soft G.

The English language is far less consistent with Gs than it is with Cs.

Gill - part of a fish - hard G
Gill - quarter of a pint - soft G

Gillingham (Dorset) - hard G
Gillingham (Kent) - soft G

[Cockney Sparrow]

In the Tales from the Stave (available still)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/play/b07ffxsp

at 9 mins 7 seconds this is discussed. Reference to a radio broadcast by Carice where she used the hard G. The archivist at the Birmingham Oratory states they do no know what pronunciation Newman used, but the tradition there is to use the soft G in accordance with ecclesiastical tradition.

Edit - added - I should also have added my appreciation and thanks to Pabmusic for his contributions on these boards .

[Pabmusic]

In the Tales from the Stave (available still)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/play/b07ffxsp

at 9 mins 7 seconds this is discussed. Reference to a radio broadcast by Carice where she used the hard G. The archivist at the Birmingham Oratory states they do no know what pronunciation Newman used, but the tradition there is to use the soft G in accordance with eccelsiastical tradition.

Very interesting. Thank you.

[Barbirollians]

Carice's use is probably quite good evidence that he used a hard G - then again I disagree with my father about the pronunciation of words ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I do recall several sources that state that the G is hard in Gerontius. In the Record Review interview, Andrew McGregor consistently used the hard G, as Kate Kennedy was equally consistent with the soft G.

The English language is far less consistent with Gs than it is with Cs.

Gill - part of a fish - hard G
Gill - quarter of a pint - soft G

Gillingham (Dorset) - hard G
Gillingham (Kent) - soft G

Indeed - the only hard G "g e" combination I can think of is "get" - everything else (general, German, germane, germ, gentle, gesture, genuine, gem, gelatin) is soft.

I've been a "hard g in Gerontius" since I heard/read in my teens that that was how the composer pronounced it, but the "evidence" seems to be lacking.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Carice's use is probably quite good evidence that he used a hard G - then again I disagree with my father about the pronunciation of words ...

A pity the recording of Carice (?pronounced "Sarike"?) wasn't part of the broadcast.

I suspect the whole of this discussion is of absolutely no interest to MrJongJong.