Karajan

[Conchis]

I agree! In fact I enjoy all Ashkenazy's Sibelius Decca recordings.

And still in demonstration sound!

[jayne lee wilson]

Hello Alain, Duggie and Cloughie,

It wasn't just Karajan who didn't perform the Sibelius Third. I discovered that it was over a hundred years before the Berliner Philharmoniker first performed the Third which was in 2010 under Simon Rattle.

I enjoyed Rattle's live Berlin 3rd relayed from the Barbican on its own terms, but much prefer his CBSO Sibelius to what I've heard of the Berlin set (admittedly only sampled or heard via the Berlin DCH; the BPO set is greyed-out on Qobuz, sadly). His CBSO 3rd, especially on the original EMI Angel CD is absolutely stunning, musically and sonically. I tend to like tauter, swifter or cool, plain-spoken 3rds, so otherwise it would be BSO/Sanderling (Christus-Kirche again..) or Berglund in Bournemouth or Helsinki. There's that great Sibelian Vanska of course, though I find his Lahti 3rd just a little soft and drawn-out, if very evocative; his recent Minneapolis recording (c/w 6 & 7) is marvellous, one of the very best.

I'm not surprised some conductors, or orchestras, have trouble with it; it appears so clear, serene, almost classical in its thematic shapes and architecture ("Haydnesque" as one Gramophonian described it); doesn't fight any battles or resolve conflicts as it attains its calmly joyful conclusion; yet always retains a mystery, an emotional enigma at its heart (those chamber-musical divided strings at the core of the slow movement...), which makes this listener feel that she's never quite got to the heart of it; but that's a good thing, as it sends you back to hear, and peer at, its misty landscapes once again.

[Beef Oven!]

Interesting that the discussion of Karajan's recordings on here has focused so much on Scoenberg/Berg/Webern rather than Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Bruckner, et al. A positive, I would say.

Around 1987 when I'd just about given up on post-punk/indie/alternative, and jazz wasn't quite cutting it for me, I turned to Classical. Karajan was ubiquitous. Then he died and the flood gates opened.

I became familiar with LvB, Bruckner, 2VS, and a few others through HvK.

His Parsifal is my favourite recording and his Ring is second only to Reggie's, IMV. As has already been mentioned, it's the balance between the singers and the orchestra that is spot on (something that Reggie achieves albeit via a different route). So many Rings are shouty, noisy with to much clatter and bang!

Interestingly, Kna's Parsifal made me think that HvK was a bit smooth. However, having borrowed a friend's Levine a decade or so ago, it made the HvK seem positively rough and ready!

I still listen to the 3 CD set of 2VS regular after all these years.

Too many to mention any more, and much has already been said on here.

[cloughie]

I enjoyed Rattle's live Berlin 3rd relayed from the Barbican on its own terms, but much prefer his CBSO Sibelius to what I've heard of the Berlin set (admittedly only sampled or heard via the Berlin DCH; the BPO set is greyed-out on Qobuz, sadly). His CBSO 3rd, especially on the original EMI Angel CD is absolutely stunning, musically and sonically. I tend to like tauter, swifter or cool, plain-spoken 3rds, so otherwise it would be BSO/Sanderling (Christus-Kirche again..) or Berglund in Bournemouth or Helsinki. There's that great Sibelian Vanska of course, though I find his Lahti 3rd just a little soft and drawn-out, if very evocative; his recent Minneapolis recording (c/w 6 & 7) is marvellous, one of the very best.

I'm not surprised some conductors, or orchestras, have trouble with it; it appears so clear, serene, almost classical in its thematic shapes and architecture ("Haydnesque" as one Gramophonian described it); doesn't fight any battles or resolve conflicts as it attains its calmly joyful conclusion; yet always retains a mystery, an emotional enigma at its heart (those chamber-musical divided strings at the core of the slow movement...), which makes this listener feel that she's never quite got to the heart of it; but that's a good thing, as it sends you back to hear, and peer at, its misty landscapes once again.

Going back, a conductor who probably did what Sibelius said on the tin with his No3 was Robert Kajanus and the recording sounds good in the Warner Sibelius Historical box from 2015.

[Barbirollians]

An extraordinary conductor no doubt . Some of his work I do not get on with at all( never warmed to that Mahler 9 studio or live) - others the Philharmonia and 1960s BPO Beethoven , the 1970s Brahms cycle , his EMI Sibelius 4 and 5 , that legendary Debussy and Ravel record from the 1960s , the live Testament Brahms 1 and Ein Heldenleben for a start are utterly wonderful.

[BBMmk2]

An extraordinary conductor no doubt . Some of his work I do not get on with at all( never warmed to that Mahler 9 studio or live) - others the Philharmonia and 1960s BPO Beethoven , the 1970s Brahms cycle , his EMI Sibelius 4 and 5 , that legendary Debussy and Ravel record from the 1960s , the live Testament Brahms 1 and Ein Heldenleben for a start are utterly wonderful.

Quite the opposite for me Barbs. He created new insights for me.

[Ferretfancy]

It's a bit unfortunate that there are not more recordings of the early Karajan, when he conducted the Philharmonia in London. Many of those performances on the South Bank were wonderful, but few exist on disc. Of course, there are the Beethoven symphonies on EMI, and I first encountered Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra from the same source, Sibelius as well,but I would like more.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's a bit unfortunate that there are not more recordings of the early Karajan, when he conducted the Philharmonia in London. Many of those performances on the South Bank were wonderful, but few exist on disc. Of course, there are the Beethoven symphonies on EMI, and I first encountered Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra from the same source, Sibelius as well,but I would like more.

117 CDs of recordings from 1938-60 for £1.14 per disc suit you, Ff?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Herbert-Von-Karajan-1938-1960-Collection/dp/B008VT20TQ

(PS, the "MP3" version at £6.43 isn't!)

[Petrushka]

It's a bit unfortunate that there are not more recordings of the early Karajan, when he conducted the Philharmonia in London. Many of those performances on the South Bank were wonderful, but few exist on disc. Of course, there are the Beethoven symphonies on EMI, and I first encountered Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra from the same source, Sibelius as well,but I would like more.

FF: Are you aware of this recently issued double CD? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0757G5F...ZLZSXA7N&psc=0

I've not heard it myself but it's on the wish list.