Haitink's 1970 Mahler 9

[Barbirollians]

I see that the late Deryck Cooke gave this record a rave review in Gramophone in 1970 including stating whilst Solti,Bernstein,Klemperer and Walter's were their Mahker 9s this recording was Mahker's 9th rather than Haitink's .

I liked the finale of the recent BR Klassik Mahler 3 Haitink recorded but the rest of it struck me as rather streamlined and lacking in rusticity .

That has been my experience of other Mahler I have heard from him - Performances that I have admired rather then gave been thrilled by .

Does this record from 1970 stand apart ? or is it a cooler type Mahler? - a type of performance that seldom did much for me .

[richardfinegold]

I see that the late Deryck Cooke gave this record a rave review in Gramophone in 1970 including stating whilst Solti,Bernstein,Klemperer and Walter's were their Mahker 9s this recording was Mahker's 9th rather than Haitink's .

I liked the finale of the recent BR Klassik Mahler 3 Haitink recorded but the rest of it struck me as rather streamlined and lacking in rusticity .

That has been my experience of other Mahler I have heard from him - Performances that I have admired rather then gave been thrilled by .

Does this record from 1970 stand apart ? or is it a cooler type Mahler? - a type of performance that seldom died much for me .

I assume that you meant “did” instead of “died”
I have both of those M9s. I have listened to the Bavarian recording quite a bit since I bought it. The earlier one is contained in the box “Haitink: The Phillips Years” and I have to admit that while I listened to it once and I don’t remember it well. If I get a chance I will revisit it.
Haitink made a believer out of me with a Concert Of M1 in Chicago a few years ago. I was spellbound. I never bought the recording that came from the concert because I didn’t want that memory to be tarnished in any way, although the disc was well reviewed. Ever since then I have viewed his Mahler with a different perspective. He is the master of architecture. Someone like Jansons prettifies every section and gets lost in the thickets of the Mahler forests. Haitink understands that each major section should have one emotional peak to be scaled. He builds to these moments and doesn’t highlight all the scenery along the way. I have listened to his recordings of the Third from both Chicago and Bavaria. They are remarkably similar so I assume he has fairly fixed ideas here
He isn’t Bernstein or Walter, but he isn’t as “objectivist”as Boulez. He picks his spots makes the most of them

[Petrushka]

RFG, those are very perceptive comments and apply to Haitink's way with much of what he does. When that Amsterdam Mahler 9 was recorded Haitink was just turned 40 and it is remarkable just how mature a reading it is. I have heard him in the 9th on several occasions now (two with the LSO and another with the VPO) and there are a couple more Concertgebouw versions around. They all show the same qualities that RFG notes.

That 1969 Mahler 9 was my benchmark for many years and it remains one of the greatest performances of it on disc.

[richardfinegold]

RFG, those are very perceptive comments and apply to Haitink's way with much of what he does. When that Amsterdam Mahler 9 was recorded Haitink was just turned 40 and it is remarkable just how mature a reading it is. I have heard him in the 9th on several occasions now (two with the LSO and another with the VPO) and there are a couple more Concertgebouw versions around. They all show the same qualities that RFG notes.

That 1969 Mahler 9 was my benchmark for many years and it remains one of the greatest performances of it on disc.

I listened to it last night and it is a superb recording. There are some differences, inevitably, with the recent Bavarian recording, but remarkable consistency considering the more than 40 year distance between them.
I is slightly more poignant in the new recording. BH now makes more use of some of the pauses between sections . Otoh, the Amsterdam IV really has impact in the climax. The Playing in the chamber like episode is spectacular and Haitink ever so slightly increases the tempo in that section and leads to a crushing tutti. The long wind down from there truly seems like a leave taking and benefits from not being overly sentimentalize, as it tends be in other hands.
I have always thought that BH plays the middle movements as well as any Conductor. II is perfect here. The stuttering dance at the beginning really changes into something sinister. Did Ravel know of this music when he wrote La Valse? And III is suitably fierce and sardonic without being frantic, another common failing that others make.
BH achieves a lot by letting Mahler speak for himself, without editoriizing. The recording is very natural sounding.
I feel a bit ashamed that I didn’t remember how excellent it was.

[Barbirollians]

Thanks for those comments - anyone with a less rosy view ? I think ferney removed the Haitink from some other forumite's list of best recordings but did not say why on another thread .

Sadly, it seems to be deleted in physical format .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think ferney removed the Haitink from some other forumite's list of best recordings but did not say why on another thread .

I hope I didn't "delete" it as such, just removed it from a quotation when I was agreeing with the other "best recordings"! Haitink's Mahler has never appealed to me, so I'm far from qualified to comment on its virtues - the Penguin Guide rossette led me to search it out in my late teens, and I was bored by it. With so many other recordings that really light my fire, I don't feel enthusiastic about returning to it.

Sadly, it seems to be deleted in physical format .

Only "seems" - I just have a bit of a cold, that's all.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Thanks for those comments - anyone with a less rosy view ? I think ferney removed the Haitink from some other forumite's list of best recordings but did not say why on another thread .

Sadly, it seems to be deleted in physical format .

I think its included in "Bernard Haitink: The Symphony Edition" and Amazon says it has 11 sets left, more on the way (not bad for a limited edition). 36 discs, so yes a lot more besides.

[Barbirollians]

I hope I didn't "delete" it as such, just removed it from a quotation when I was agreeing with the other "best recordings"! Haitink's Mahler has never appealed to me, so I'm far from qualified to comment on its virtues - the Penguin Guide rossette led me to search it out in my late teens, and I was bored by it. With so many other recordings that really light my fire, I don't feel enthusiastic about returning to it.


Only "seems" - I just have a bit of a cold, that's all.

I know what you mean fhgl ( Tennstedt's Mahler leaves me cold no matter what I listen to of his recordings ) - I do not have any other Haitink Mahler except the Mahler 3 referred to above except for the Baker/King 1975 Das Lied with Haitink ( what a shame Dame Janet never had the chance to record it with Barbirolli ) . That is a recording I go back to and Dame Janet Baker is marvellous and Haitink conducts with much feeling but I just do not like the sound of James King's voice belting away in that recording matter how many times I listen to it .