Poor recordings - are they genre related?

[jayne lee wilson]

The BIS disc I mentioned above was the Holmboe Four Symphonic Metamorphoses (Aalborg SO/O.A.Hughes)... the heavy brasses near the very end of No.4 are very demanding. Even a friend's set-up of AVI Monoblocks/Quad ESL 63s showed signs of strain...!

(Partly my fault of course... "I didn't know my system could play that loud" he said...(whoops ...)

[LeMartinPecheur]

I wonder if there might be a special category for somewhat 'crossover' discs recorded by someone from the the 'wrong' field ('side of the tracks')?

The locus classicus is perhaps this disc by Kiri Te Kanawa


Great singer, great songs, great band - what could possibly go wrong?

ANSWER Close-mike the singer like a pop artist so you can clearly hear every (huge!) intake of breath!

[Pulcinella]

...., which brings the DG recording of West Side Story to mind!

[Cockney Sparrow]

Spotted this in a charity shop, for me it trumps the other candidates:



(my first attempt to post an image; bound to fail - I'm talking about Sarah Brightman - Britten - Folksong Arrangements - EMI - as on this page:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/CDs-Vinyl/Britten-Folksong-Arrangements-Brightman-Parsons/B00000DNKH/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1502905400&sr=8-6&keywords=Brightman+EMI

[LeMartinPecheur]

Spotted this in a charity shop, for me it trumps the other candidates:



(my first attempt to post an image; bound to fail - I'm talking about Sarah Brightman - Britten - Folksong Arrangements - EMI - as on this page:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/CDs-Vinyl...=Brightman+EMI

OK CS, but what does it sound like?

Is it another example of 'mike resting on tonsils' perchance?

[johnb]

Early this evening I was listening to and greatly enjoying Ivan Fischer's Mahler 4 in 24/96. I then played Boult's Elgar In the South - what a shock to the system. The Boult recording had a ridiculously splashy treble and was difficult to enjoy.

What I am getting at is that not all recordings from the 50's and 60's are very good in terms of sound quality. In fact quite a lot leave something to be desired especially in the treble. The Solti Mahler 8 is much admired and a brilliant recording, but the bass is extremely subdued * resulting in a curious lack of weight or depth. Perhaps the original mastering was done with fitting the recording onto LPs in mind - good bass requires very W-I-D-E groove spacing on LPs. Then there are the classic Kertesz Dvorak Symphonies - lovely performances but I find the sound very tiring to listen to, so they mostly remain unplayed.

One thing I loath in modern recordings is when the engineer deliberately pushes the sound levels into clipping to give it "impact" while at the same time coarsening the sound. It doesn't happen very often and most of the major labels are free from it - but it is present on the Naxos Petrenko Shostakovich 10 and on Chung's Nielsen 3 (BIS). BIS made a whole series of recordings that carried a warning about damage to equipment because of how loud they are. The only way that level of "loudness" can be achieved is by pushing the sound levels upwards - either into clipping or using some artificial technique to avoid that clipping - not good. The Chung Nielsen 3 was one of that series.

[Edit] * or perhaps another way of describing the sound is that the Solti Mahler 8 has an extreme (at least to my ears) treble emphasis.

[Cockney Sparrow]

OK CS, but what does it sound like?

Is it another example of 'mike resting on tonsils' perchance?

Well, Le M P, I've heard enough of the lady's vocal qualities to have left it on the shelf. I did take a photo of the cover as a prompt to remembering it. I was truly astounded such a recording existed.....

[Ferretfancy]

I too have that Pontinen Satie disc..must have been one of BIS's first releases. I agree that it sounds wonderful. Some other early examples of their outstanding recordings were those with Jakob Lindberg - English Lute Duets, Music from Scotland and France, Vivaldi Lute Concertos and even music for lute by Haydn. I treasure them.

Those lute duets were recorded using a pair of microphones and a Revox H77 tape machine. Perhaps there's a message there somewhere.

[richardfinegold]

Early this evening I was listening to and greatly enjoying Ivan Fischer's Mahler 4 in 24/96. I then played Boult's Elgar In the South - what a shock to the system. The Boult recording had a ridiculously splashy treble and was difficult to enjoy.

What I am getting at is that not all recordings from the 50's and 60's are very good in terms of sound quality. In fact quite a lot leave something to be desired especially in the treble. The Solti Mahler 8 is much admired and a brilliant recording, but the bass is extremely subdued resulting in a curious lack of weight or depth. Perhaps the original mastering was done with fitting the recording onto LPs in mind - good bass requires very W-I-D-E groove spacing on LPs. Then there are the classic Kertesz Dvorak Symphonies - lovely performances but I find the sound very tiring to listen to, so they mostly remain unplayed.

One thing I loath in modern recordings is when the engineer deliberately pushes the sound levels into clipping to give it "impact" while at the same time coarsening the sound. It doesn't happen very often and most of the major labels are free from it - but it is present on the Naxos Petrenko Shostakovich 10 and on Chung's Nielsen 3 (BIS). BIS made a whole series of recordings that carried a warning about damage to equipment because of how loud they are. The only way that level of "loudness" can be achieved is by pushing the sound levels upwards - either into clipping or using some artificial technique to avoid that clipping - not good. The Chung Nielsen 3 was one of that series.

I had just purchased an Eloquence recycling of Boult in RVW suite from The Wasps and Job. When I played the disc it sounded awful and I concluded that must be a mono recording from perhaps the early 50s. I could not detect any channel separation. No, the notes with the CD stated 1965 release date. So much for the notion that everyone that worked for Decca in the day was a Golden Ears

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I had just purchased an Eloquence recycling of Boult in RVW suite from The Wasps and Job. When I played the disc it sounded awful and I concluded that must be a mono recording from perhaps the early 50s. I could not detect any channel separation. No, the notes with the CD stated 1965 release date. So much for the notion that everyone that worked for Decca in the day was a Golden Ears

Possibly a typo for "1956"? Or the date when DECCA first coupled the two recordings? EDIT: No, it can't be that, as the DECCA Eclipse Job LP reissue didn't appear until 1973, and then it have the Wasps coupling.

(The DECCA Wasps was recorded in 1954, Job in 1954. There is an EVEREST Job from 1958 - but don't ELOQUENCE tend to have DECCA sources? The 1968 Wasps and 1970 Job are both for EMI /WARNER.)

[Conchis]

Spotted this in a charity shop, for me it trumps the other candidates:



(my first attempt to post an image; bound to fail - I'm talking about Sarah Brightman - Britten - Folksong Arrangements - EMI - as on this page:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/CDs-Vinyl...=Brightman+EMI

Is Brightman a credible singer? After losing her heart to a starship trooper, she didn't lose her heart to a Phantom but became a Lady. Now, she's an ex-Lady. But can she sing this repertoire?

[Cockney Sparrow]

Is Brightman a credible singer? After losing her heart to a starship trooper, she didn't lost her heart to a Phantom but became a Lady. Now, she's an ex-Lady. But can she sing this repertoire?

Perhaps a question for others? For myself - - see my post #52

[MickyD]

Those lute duets were recorded using a pair of microphones and a Revox H77 tape machine. Perhaps there's a message there somewhere.

I'm not at all up on things technical, all I can say is that it is one of the loveliest-sounding discs that I possess.

[Alison]

Early this evening I was listening to and greatly enjoying Ivan Fischer's Mahler 4 in 24/96. I then played Boult's Elgar In the South - what a shock to the system. The Boult recording had a ridiculously splashy treble and was difficult to enjoy.

What I am getting at is that not all recordings from the 50's and 60's are very good in terms of sound quality. In fact quite a lot leave something to be desired especially in the treble. The Solti Mahler 8 is much admired and a brilliant recording, but the bass is extremely subdued * resulting in a curious lack of weight or depth. Perhaps the original mastering was done with fitting the recording onto LPs in mind - good bass requires very W-I-D-E groove spacing on LPs. Then there are the classic Kertesz Dvorak Symphonies - lovely performances but I find the sound very tiring to listen to, so they mostly remain unplayed.

One thing I loath in modern recordings is when the engineer deliberately pushes the sound levels into clipping to give it "impact" while at the same time coarsening the sound. It doesn't happen very often and most of the major labels are free from it - but it is present on the Naxos Petrenko Shostakovich 10 and on Chung's Nielsen 3 (BIS). BIS made a whole series of recordings that carried a warning about damage to equipment because of how loud they are. The only way that level of "loudness" can be achieved is by pushing the sound levels upwards - either into clipping or using some artificial technique to avoid that clipping - not good. The Chung Nielsen 3 was one of that series.

[Edit] * or perhaps another way of describing the sound is that the Solti Mahler 8 has an extreme (at least to my ears) treble emphasis.

I know most of those recordings and totally agree with you.

[richardfinegold]

Possibly a typo for "1956"? Or the date when DECCA first coupled the two recordings? EDIT: No, it can't be that, as the DECCA Eclipse Job LP reissue didn't appear until 1973, and then it have the Wasps coupling.

(The DECCA Wasps was recorded in 1954, Job in 1954. There is an EVEREST Job from 1958 - but don't ELOQUENCE tend to have DECCA sources? The 1968 Wasps and 1970 Job are both for EMI /WARNER.)

Well, that makes me feel better, because it sure sounded like a mono recording. Yet I had ordered it after hearing a stereo Boult recording on the radio, which must have been the EMI or the Everest. I still don't know how Eloquence can have a mid sixties date on the jewel cover but I will avoid buying any Eloquence releases from now on