Conductors that just do not do it for you ?

[MrGongGong]

I am NOT replying to this thread !

"Ceci n'est pas une pipe"

[Petrushka]

Roger Norrington
John Eliot Gardner
Nikolaus Harnoncourt

I've seen each of them a few times and have a number of their recordings so it's not for want of trying but they fail to float my boat, NH in particular.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What a number of pious responses . If you do not like a thread surely the most sensible thing is not to post on it .

Seconded. It must be hard living with such paragons.

I don't think so. Negative threads simply create a negative atmosphere. It's quite different from criticising a conductor in context.

[Alison]

Having slept on it, I have concluded MTT really isn't so bad.

Didnt he leave the chief LSO post with the orchestra in much better shape ?

And Ive got just a few discs that i do enjoy.

[Mandryka]

I don't see why negative threads have to start ill-feeling. Expressing your reservations about something/someone - and why you have them - is all part of artistic appreciation.

These threads tend to become negative because someone says they dislike such and such a piece, then someone else takes umbrage and decides to mount a personal attack on that person. There is really no need for that.


I would not say that Simon Rattle is useless or a fraud, as that would plainly be untrue on both counts, but I don't rate him anywhere near as highly as some people seem to.

[HighlandDougie]

"Expressing your reservations about something/someone - and why you have them" - is a perfectly reasonable response to the point made by Eine Alpensinfonie but I must admit I'm struggling a bit to see reasoned explanations about who I have now come to know with depressing regularity from various earlier posts as the usual suspects - JEG, MTT, Harnoncourt, poor old Andrew Davis and Neville Marriner. Where was Roger Norrington? and Simon Rattle? But then the next time I looked, there they were. Maybe someone should set up a sub-thread called, "Vent my spleen - unleash my prejudices", which is fine for those posters who like to, well, get those bêtes noires off their chest (it'll be pianists next - Mitsuko Uchida, Paul Lewis etc etc). But, and I admit it's personal, I find it all a bit, yes, negative. One of the great pleasures (indeed joys) of this forum is what I learn - about composers, new pieces of music which I've never heard, performances, recordings, bargains - the list goes on and on. I agree that I neither need to read a thread or post to it if I don't like the look of the title but nonetheless it doesn't gladden my heart when I read 'Conductors that do not just do it for you'. OK, I've had one glass too many of Provencal rosé but listening to Neville Marriner's Walton/Prokofiev disc from the recent box made me think that I was struggling to see the positive aspects of this thread.

[Barbirollians]

Highland Dougie - your last sentence may make the point - I don't know the walton?prokofiev disc to which you refer . My experience of Marriner largely was his very slick 1980s ASMF records that were lauded - e.g his Mozart symphonies . Skrowacewski a string of routine concerts with the Halle when I had a season ticket.

It is interested to be pointed to records to try and hear conductors that you have struggled with - with new ears .

[Petrushka]

My problem with Harnoncourt is that he imposes his own idiosyncratic view on the music which to my ears runs counter to what I imagine the composer was after. I have his Bruckner 5 and 9 with a VPO that manages to sound nothing like that orchestra. Still, a few years since I last heard them so may try them out again to see if I respond in the same way.

Negative threads can still cause you to re-evaluate your prejudices.

[Mandryka]

Highland Dougie - your last sentence may make the point - I don't know the walton?prokofiev disc to which you refer . My experience of Marriner largely was his very slick 1980s ASMF records that were lauded - e.g his Mozart symphonies . Skrowacewski a string of routine concerts with the Halle when I had a season ticket.

It is interested to be pointed to records to try and hear conductors that you have struggled with - with new ears .

I was listening to a recording of Skrowaczewski and the Halle in Shostakovich 10 the other week and thinking how good it sounded.....but I never saw S.S. live with them, so what do I know? He was considered quite a coup to obtain, iirc, but he didn't stay that long, did he?

[Suffolkcoastal]

Surprisingly I like Harnoncourt's approach to Beethoven (except for the unmarked double repeats in the scherziof the symphonies). There are no conductors are really dislike nor are there any I complete adore, each seem to have their merits as well as their bad points, some I find are very good in specific repetoire, others recorded works which perhaps they shouldn't have.

[hackneyvi]

My paltry contribution to this thread will be this: Simon Rattle.

It's nothing at all to do with his musicianship but whenever I see him speak he invariably impresses me as artificial and that greatly affects my willingness to approach his performances.

It's an absurd way to carry on and a long-standing wall between us and stems, I think, from hearing him many years ago speak to his small son as if his son, too, was a public audience.

[visualnickmos]

I kind of know where you are on this. A few years ago, I heard/saw him 'live' conducting the VPO at the Proms (LvB 6) and although brilliant, the whole thing lacked personality. I have also found this on the (admittedly few) occasions that I've heard examples of his recorded output. Apart from his Mahler 10, which I think is fab!!! So - all in all, a very difficult question to answer 'Conductors who just.....'

[barber olly]

Roger Norrington
John Eliot Gardner
Nikolaus Harnoncourt

Have to agree with these although when Norrington first came on the scene with the LCP he did produce some lively recordings, however his recent approach seems to be to make great works very dull eg Elgar 1.

Vaclav Neumann and Mengelberg are on my list.

Contrary to many others on this thread I have found few MTT recordings that were less than very good and his LSO Mahler 3 is excellent. His SFSO Mahler I find too expensive to try on spec - maybe very good, but uncompetitive on price in a tight market! I'm surprised at the comments on Marriner - I remember his Bach, Vivaldi and Handel being a breath of fresh air just before old instruments became mandatory!

[StephenO]

My paltry contribution to this thread will be this: Simon Rattle.

It's nothing at all to do with his musicianship but whenever I see him speak he invariably impresses me as artificial and that greatly affects my willingness to approach his performances.

It's an absurd way to carry on and a long-standing wall between us and stems, I think, from hearing him many years ago speak to his small son as if his son, too, was a public audience.

I saw Simon Rattle conduct many times during his CBSO days and never found any of his performances to be anything less than deeply moving. Some of his more recent BPO recordings (his latest Mahler 2 being a prime example) have failed to capture the same magic he managed to generate at Symphony Hall, though.

Having heard him speak a couple of times I can't say I've ever thought of him as remotely artificial. All a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

[Petrushka]

I saw Simon Rattle conduct many times during his CBSO days and never found any of his performances to be anything less than deeply moving. Some of his more recent BPO recordings (his latest Mahler 2 being a prime example) have failed to capture the same magic he managed to generate at Symphony Hall, though.

Having heard him speak a couple of times I can't say I've ever thought of him as remotely artificial. All a matter of personal taste, I suppose.

I, too, attended many Rattle concerts in Birmingham and fully agree with this assessment. If only EMI would issue the Rattle 'farewell' performance of 1998 with the CBSO of Mahler's Resurrection. I was present at this and no-one who was there will ever forget it. A TV recording was broadcast on Channel 4(!) the following week so it is a total mystery why this has not been made commercially available. I have it safely transferred to DVD.

Incidentally, I have met SR a couple of times and he was nothing other than extremely pleasant and friendly in conversation.