Schubert 9 and all the repeats

[Barbirollians]

In tracking down the review of Barbirolli 's EMI Schubert 9 the other day I came across a very appreciative review of the mid 1970s recording by the LPO and Sir John Pritchard on CFP . Copies are to be had as it was re released when EMI resurrected the label at the turn of the millennium .

The big thing noted as well as the fact it is an excellent performance is that it was the first recording to include all the repeats . As such it weighs in at 54 minutes and 25 seconds .

Listening to it in this form Bruckner's debt to Schubert has never seemed clearer to me . Is it still uncommon to play all the repeats in this work ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think that nowadays the majority of conductors (certainly those under 70) correctly trust Schubert and perform the unedited version. Interesting to hear that Pritchard's was the first to record them - I had always thought that it was Loughran's from 1979; a performance that lasts over 63 minutes (thus requiring the original ENIGMA Classics LP release to put the first Movement as the second track on side two; side one consisting of Movts 2 & 3, and the Finale the first track on side two).

At £2.37 (with P&P added) it's tempting to get the Pritchard:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Symphonies-Nos-London-Philharmonic-Orchestra/dp/B00005O3Y5

[pastoralguy]

As string players all over the world recoil in horror!

It's fine on recordings but don't expect all the repeats in live performance!

[Once Was 4]

As string players all over the world recoil in horror!

It's fine on recordings but don't expect all the repeats in live performance!

As it is, it is known to orchestral players as "the symphony that never finishes" (geddit?) or 'The Great Sea (C) Monster"But wonderful stuff all the same. To me Schubert is such friendly music - but in fact I have seen comments somewhere or other that suggest that Schubert held orchestral players in some contempt - does anybody know the truth about that?

[pastoralguy]

As it is, it is known to orchestral players as "the symphony that never finishes" (geddit?) or 'The Great Sea (C) Monster"But wonderful stuff all the same. To me Schubert is such friendly music - but in fact I have seen comments somewhere or other that suggest that Schubert held orchestral players in some contempt - does anybody know the truth about that?

Ah, I've never heard about Schubert having a low opinion of orchestral players. I suspect Beethoven didn't have a terribly high opinion of them either so perhaps some of that indifference rubbed off on Franz. Schubert's music has always been so human to me that it's hard to think of him being unsympathetic to... well, anyone really.

I know that an RSNO viola player friend has a smaller instrument he keeps for whenever Schubert 9 is on the programme!

[Barbirollians]

The appreciative review was in the Gramophone archive . I have only played it once and it did not overstay its welcome though the first movement takes a little while to get going . Well worth £2.37 I reckon .

[BBMmk2]

Didn't Mackerras recording with the Philharmonia, include all the repeats?

[Richard Barrett]

In tracking down the review of Barbirolli 's EMI Schubert 9 the other day I came across a very appreciative review of the mid 1970s recording by the LPO and Sir John Pritchard on CFP . Copies are to be had as it was re released when EMI resurrected the label at the turn of the millennium .

The big thing noted as well as the fact it is an excellent performance is that it was the first recording to include all the repeats.

Not quite - Pritchard omitted a repeat from the finale, and the first all-repeat recording was Colin Davis with the Boston Symphony a couple of years later. From Edward Greenfield's review of the Davis recording: "Even among the dozens of rival versions of this much-recorded symphony, there is a unique claim that can be made for this latest account: it is the first recording to observe every single repeat. John Pritchard on CfP came close, but even he jibbed at repeating the exposition in the finale with its persistent triplets, dauntingly demanding for the players."

I would think that most recordings these days contain all the repeats, especially the growing number of HIPP recordings.

[jayne lee wilson]

Didn't Mackerras recording with the Philharmonia, include all the repeats?

His fine 1988 Virgin Classics release with the OAE certainly did (the first of three Mackerras recordings, the 2nd was with the SCO in 1998 on Telarc which has fewer repeats in the scherzo & trio); as he said in the April 1988 interview "with all the repeats, God help us..!" It arrives breathless at the tape on 60'00.
But their presence in the 2006/8 Philharmonia recording is ....rather intriguing....http://www.classicalsource.com/db_co...ew.php?id=6189

I'd be surprised if some HIPPs conductors didn't leave some out, some of the time.... a glance at various timings suggests as much. But it would take rather a lot of repetitious listening to confirm which repeats went where......

[pastoralguy]

But it would take rather a lot of repetitious listening to confirm which repeats went where......

I went through an obsession with this work a couple of years ago, playing it over and over again until Mrs. PG, who NEVER complains about my listening habits, (*)threatened to cut the plug off the CD player if I inflicted it on her AGAIN.

* Apart from John Cage.

[cloughie]

I went through an obsession with this work a couple of years ago, playing it over and over again until Mrs. PG, who NEVER complains about my listening habits, (*)threatened to cut the plug off the CD player if I inflicted it on her AGAIN.

* Apart from John Cage.

Cage too quiet? But then you have to take 4'33" every now and again.

[gurnemanz]

I heard it for the first time when I was a student. It was on a car radio, while driving through the Alps. (an appropriate backdrop). I hadn't heard it announced and thought it was Bruckner. I soon bought an L.P. - Josef Krips on Ace of Diamonds.

[Barbirollians]

Interesting that EG seemed to miss that a repeat was missing in His original review.

[Richard Barrett]

Interesting that EG seemed to miss that a repeat was missing in His original review.

Despite your capitalised pronoun he was only human!

[Petrushka]

I'm all for the repeats in the Schubert 9 - except for the exposition repeat in the last movement. It sounds contrived and unconvincing, not a natural repeat at all, and as a result the movement can just outstay its welcome. The VPO/Solti and Orchestra Mozart/Abbado are both very fine but they would be even finer without that finale repeat.

In my view, its inclusion is a mistake.