What download have you bought?

[Beef Oven!]

I don't think you will be disappointed. It is from concert performance(s). However, a Gramophone reviewer has decribed it as "overly corporate", whatever that means. Have you tried the Mena? It's my current favourite.

Wasn’t even aware of the Mena, but given what you and RB say, I saw no risk on downloading it from the Hyperion download site. Great value at £6.50 for a 16 bit CD quality recording. It has almost finished downloading, so I’ll start to listen in a about 5 mins - thanks for the steer.

[gurnemanz]

As strongly recommended elsewhere on this board I got Zemlinsky's Lyric Symphony, beatifully done by Christine Schäfer & Matthais Goerne, now seemingly only available at a very high price as a CD or as a download.

[Bryn]

Recordings of that work are coming so thick and fast these days that it seems every time I listen to it I'm listening to a new recording for the first time. Mena is fantastic. Lintu isn't bad either. Ozawa is a classic that I know every corner of, having listened to it hundreds of times when it had the field almost to itself. I think if I had to choose one it would be Nagano. "Overly corporate" describes the Gramophone quite well, I would say.

Re. the 'studio' Ozawa, potential purchasers should beware. Around a decade or so ago French RCA put out a double album including it, but in a less than wonderful transfer:



There has since been a single disc issue which is far better:



There is also an even later issue which I have not heard, so cannot comment of the quality of the transfer:

[mahlerei]

I don't think you will be disappointed. It is from concert performance(s). However, a Gramophone reviewer has decribed it as "overly corporate", whatever that means. Have you tried the Mena? It's my current favourite.

Yes, the Mena is top of my list too. An earthy performance, superbly played and recorded.

[Beef Oven!]

Listened to a podcast of the 12th March 2014 BaL of Messiaen’s Turangalîla-Symphonie and quite like what I heard of the Yan Pascal Tortelier BBC Philharmonic Orchestra, Howard Shelley & Valérie Hartmann-Claverie, so I downloaded a 16 Bit CD quality recording from Qobuz. Good value at £7.99, IMV.

I don’t know if others have a view on this, but when they being out 32 Bit / 108 kHz I shan’t re-purchase any downloads - I’m sticking with what I’ve got!

[Dave2002]

Re. the 'studio' Ozawa, potential purchasers should beware. Around a decade or so ago French RCA put out a double album including it, but in a less than wonderful transfer:



There has since been a single disc issue which is far better:



There is also an even later issue which I have not heard, so cannot comment of the quality of the transfer:

That's from around 1968 I see - so probably before regular digital recording and mastering. I heard the LP shortly after it came out as a friend had it, and we played it quite a lot. I always thought some parts of that were somewhat ragged - perhaps as much to do with the performance as the recording. Has anyone actually compared the original LP played on good equipment with the newer remastered versions or the downloads?

Perhaps the tapes weren't digitised early enough, so have degraded, thus making improved remastering difficult.

Previn's version was released around 1978, and was well received. That recording was presumably also analogue, but multi-track - (quadrophonic). I did hear Previn do it live at the Proms.

It seems (looking at online sources) that I actually have Previn's version in a DVD-A version which might sell for high prices - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Turangalila.../dp/B00005B8A6

[Richard Barrett]

That's from around 1968 I see - so probably before regular digital recording and mastering. I heard the LP shortly after it came out as a friend had it, and we played it quite a lot. I always thought some parts of that were somewhat ragged - perhaps as much to do with the performance as the recording. Has anyone actually compared the original LP played on good equipment with the newer remastered versions or the downloads?

It's an analogue recording of course. There are indeed some ragged moments in the performance. The Toronto Symphony isn't an A-list orchestra by any means, and in 1968 this work was much less often programmed than it has become in recent decades. Whether these issues detract from the excitement of the performance is a matter of opinion; for me it has a sense of discovery about it which remains when I hear it now, even if very many issues of balance (especially between Ondes Martenot and orchestra) have had a chance in the music's subsequent performance history to be approached in different and often more convincing ways. (Also, as Bryn has pointed out, the score was revised in 1990 to take account of matters arising in its performance history until that time.)

[Dave2002]

It's an analogue recording of course.

Indeed, though some companies - probably not in the USA - might have been doing experimental recordings in digital formats by then. A few (very few) recordings have emerged out of experiments which came to light later on. Plus of course some analogue recordings were very good - though many tapes deteriorated since. There were also some not so good analogue recordings though. I don't recall the Ozawa Turangalila recording as being one of the better ones.

There are indeed some ragged moments in the performance.

Some of the string passages sounded really rough. I'm imagining them in my head as I write!

The Toronto Symphony isn't an A-list orchestra by any means, and in 1968 this work was much less often programmed than it has become in recent decades. Whether these issues detract from the excitement of the performance is a matter of opinion; for me it has a sense of discovery about it which remains when I hear it now, even if very many issues of balance (especially between Ondes Martenot and orchestra) have had a chance in the music's subsequent performance history to be approached in different and often more convincing ways. (Also, as Bryn has pointed out, the score was revised in 1990 to take account of matters arising in its performance history until that time.)

Interesting to hear about the score updates.

[mahlerei]

Yes indeed, digital recording has actually been around for quite a while. The patent for PCM was filed before WW2 and NHK made the fIrst PCM recording in 1967 (mono, 12-bit/30kHz). Denon then made the first commercial digital recording in 1971. They were very active in this field during the 1970s. Then Philips/Sony came up with the CD in 1979 and the rest, as they say, is history.

For more detail see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digita...rding#Timeline

[Richard Barrett]

digital recording has actually been around for quite a while.

I don't however think there's any doubt about Ozawa's Turangalîla recording...

As for the revisions, I wonder if Makropoulos or another expert here knows what they actually are.

[mahlerei]

I don't however think there's any doubt about Ozawa's Turangalîla recording...

No, there isn't.

BTW, there's a splendid Turangalîla in Sylvain Cambreling's 8-CD box, which I bought a while back. The 16-bit download is available from Qobuz for just under 20 euros. I'm surprised the set hasn't generated a lot of interest, as the perfomances and sound are out of the top drawer. In fact, I'd say Cambreling's Canyons is one of the finest on record.

Go for it!

http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/messiaen-o-orchestral-works-olivier-messiaen-thomas-aquinas/4010276020561

[Bryn]

No, there isn't.

BTW, there's a splendid Turangalîla in Sylvain Cambreling's 8-CD box, which I bought a while back. The 16-bit download is available from Qobuz for just under 20 euros. I'm surprised the set hasn't generated a lot of interest, as the perfomances and sound are out of the top drawer. In fact, I'd say Cambreling's Canyons is one of the finest on record.

Go for it!

http://www.qobuz.com/ie-en/album/mes.../4010276020561

I bought the boxed set of CDs 2 years ago for £19.28 (including p&p) from amazon.de. Though I already had some of the discs, the price of the boxed set at them time was lower than that of the separate CDs I had not yet purchased by then. Agreed, it is well worth having, especially at the current QOBUZ download price.

[Richard Barrett]

I bought the boxed set of CDs 2 years ago for £19.28 (including p&p) from amazon.de. Though I already had some of the discs, the price of the boxed set at them time was lower than that of the separate CDs I had not yet purchased by then. Agreed, it is well worth having, especially at the current QOBUZ download price.

I must have it!!!!!!!!!!!! (edit: Qobuz however will not allow me to have it, and all other possibilities seem to be much more expensive)

[jayne lee wilson]

Beethoven Piano Concertos 1 & 2.
Yevgeny Sudbin/Tapiola Sinfonietta/Osmo Vanska. BIS 24/96 Download (eclassical) New Release 2017.

Exceptionally transparent, spacious sound from BIS; unusually probing, thoughtful, wide-ranging performances... Sudbin's control, precision and note-to-note, phrase-to-phrase spontaneity are truly extraordinary - and perfectly mirrored by Vanska.

It may at first audition seem as if the 1st Concerto here is at times a shade cool and detached; but it soon begins to reveal depths of interpretative interest running deeper than most - the musical thinking across the larger span. So the opening of the finale seems orchestrally too fleet & lightweight, under-dynamised, but after that....
Given that the B Flat here is very, very special, one of the finest ever of a work which is my Beethoven favourite just now - this becomes one of those albums you need to return to often, seeking ever more of its subtleties....

[Beef Oven!]

Beethoven Piano Concertos 1 & 2.
Yevgeny Sudbin/Tapiola Sinfonietta/Osmo Vanska. BIS 24/96 Download (eclassical) New Release 2017.

Exceptionally transparent, spacious sound from BIS; unusually probing, thoughtful, wide-ranging performances... Sudbin's control, precision and note-to-note, phrase-to-phrase spontaneity are truly extraordinary - and perfectly mirrored by Vanska.

It may at first audition seem as if the 1st Concerto here is at times a shade cool and detached; but it soon begins to reveal depths of interpretative interest running deeper than most - the musical thinking across the larger span. So the opening of the finale seems orchestrally too fleet & lightweight, under-dynamised, but after that....
Given that the B Flat here is very, very special, one of the finest ever of a work which is my Beethoven favourite just now - this becomes one of those albums you need to return to often, seeking ever more of its subtleties....

Tempting .....